ParlInfo - Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee : 03/05/2012 : Marriage Equality Amendment Bill 2010

ParlInfo - Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee : 03/05/2012 : Marriage Equality Amendment Bill 2010

Senator PRATT: But what if someone is of indeterminate gender? I am unclear whether they should have the right, according to the way you would argue it, to be part of such a union.

Mr Meney : People suffering from Turner syndrome, Klinefelter syndrome and things of that ilk are typically infertile or regarded as being mentally handicapped in some way. Many things about marriage require people to have the capacity to consent to what marriage is all about, so a significant mental incapacity might be something that might mitigate against a person being able to consent to a contract of marriage. But that is true of any marriage.

Rev. Slucki : I think we are coming up against statute law, which wants to try and make provision for every eventuality, as opposed to common law, which tries to do the right thing in principle for the overwhelming majority. That is what this tried and true definition of marriage is—it for the overwhelming majority. The definition we have at the moment has worked well throughout the centuries and that is what we should stick with. Yes, there are unusual instances. But I think we get into dangers and difficulties when we try to fit every eventuality into our laws. I do not think we should do that. I think we should leave it.

Mr Meney is the Director of the Life, Marriage & Family Centre, Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney, and speaking in his official capacity.

Although they are not mentally retarded, most XXY males have some degree of language impairment. As children, they often learn to speak much later than do other children and may have difficulty learning to read and write.

-- Understanding Klinefelter Syndrome -- National Institute of Child Health and Human Development.

Mental retardation is not a feature of Turner syndrome, despite such claims in older medical textbooks. Thorough psychological studies show that these women are normal intellectually, but often have a characteristic pattern of intellectual functioning. While their verbal 10 usually is average or above, their non-verbal IQ may be considerably lower because of problems visualizing objects in relation to each other. This difficulty may show up in poor performance in math, geometry, and tasks requiring manual dexterity or sense of direction.

- Turner Syndrome -- Human Growth Foundation.

In other news, and contrary to "older textbooks" and the historical belief of the Catholic Church (and that of the SSPX today), the Sun does not orbit the Earth. Eppur Si Muove.

As for the Reverend Slucki, Convener, Church and Nation Committee, Presbyterian Church of Australia, had his ideology been adopted, his distinctly minority non-conforming "Church" would have remain illegitimated and unrecognised. Legally illegitimate, rather than actually, I mean. The bastardry in his testimony speaks for itself.

 Sometimes it's difficult to remember such pious, God-Fearing and sanctimonious fools mean well. They're just smugly ignorant.

My Life

Today's Battle

Over at MSNBC on Miss Universe Canada.

The comments are the usual mix. A lot which are rather vile though. "Freak", "Pervert", "It", etc.

@!$%# your political correctness. People pretending to be the opposite sex is disgusting. These people are sick. They need professional help.

Uh........yuck !

It isn't now,You can allow the disgusting creature in, I don't have watch it or have any dealings with it.

More evidence that Western society is on the slide down.

WELL , THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD ; where i'm from , we believe GOD doesn't make mistakes. and on that last day , that freak show will be seen as such.

All you are as the rest, are a bunch fudge-packers in disguise. You bunch of faggots make me sick.

Let the FREEK show begin!

It can enter every contest it wants. It can dress in all the female clothes it wants. It can have all the operations it wants. BUT, it will NEVER be a WOMEN no matter what it wants. NEVER!!!!!!!!

Freak. Once again a very small percentage of the population controls the rest. We have become afraid...... It will all be coming to an end soon then it is all moot.

I think this guy/gal if from Thailand. If so its no wonder. Often mothers push their young boys towards this kind of thinking because if they go through this sex change crap they then marry them off and the old man who marries them pays the family money. When you look at whats going on over there you see ALOT of sex tourist and what they call "lady boys". So he claims to knew he was a girl at age 4. This I doubt alot unless the parents where behind this thinking. One more example of the moral decline the human race has taken. Just because he has no penis and takes drugs dose not change the fact that he is a guy. I doubt this is even his real hair color. His birth papers say what? Will he go to the court to change his birth papers ? If so he will once more just be living a lie, a phony hiding behind the outer fake shell having for the rest of his life taking drugs to keep it looking like something nature never wanted.

Sick, disgusting and freakish !!!

So basically those of you that "approve" of this disgrace being "ok" and agreeing to let this obviously very, very, very confused soul compete against "real" women are suggesting that God didn't know what He was doing in His creation of "him." And yes, it's a "him," and always will be, no matter what he had a surgeon do to his body parts. God brought this boy into the world, yes, BOY, and I doubt very seriously He said "oops! I forgot to put a slit on that one and left a wanker on him too!" God doesn't make mistakes, face it dude, penis or no penis, now ur just a dude without a set of balls!

further proof that some people are not fit to compete in the human race!

And as much as I support the freedom and equality of gay people, I dont support this. Its a beauty pageant for women. Not Trannies.

That's just on the first few pages....

Facebook Security

From the Huffington Post :

WASHINGTON -- House Republicans blocked a measure Tuesday night that would have let the Federal Communications Commission prevent employers from forcing workers to reveal their Facebook passwords.

One problem if they do attempt to do this: they're likely breaking existing Federal Law, and certainly violating the Facebook Terms of Service.

From those Facebook Terms of Service:

3. Safety
3.5 You will not solicit login information or access an account belonging to someone else.

4. Registration and Account Security
4.8 You will not share your password, (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account.
4.9 You will not transfer your account (including any page or application you administer) to anyone without first getting our written permission.

From MSNBC:

Frederic Wolens, a Facebook spokesman, wouldn't comment on the Maryland legislative proposals, but he said many of these school and employer policies appear to violate the site's terms.

"Under our terms, only the holder of the email address and password is considered the Facebook account owner. We also prohibit anyone from soliciting the login information or accessing an account belonging to someone else," he said in a statement to msnbc.com.

Employees should tell employers that they are not permitted by FB TOS to comply, and that to even ask is a violation of the TOS which will be reported to FB. Continued use of FB by an employer after making such a request, whether reported or not, may leave the employer open to civil and criminal penalties for unauthorised access of a protected computer, should there be any interstate or foreign communication on their page. Advise them to take legal advice on this.

It is permissible for an employer to ask that the account be handed over to them; but this requires written permission by FB.

http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms
Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. § 1030 et seq.)

The CFAA defines a “protected computer” under 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(2) to mean a computer:
...
which is used in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce or communication, including a computer located outside the United States that is used in a manner that affects interstate or foreign commerce or communication of the United States;

Criminal offenses under the Act
...
Intentionally accessing a computer without authorization to obtain:
Information from any protected computer if the conduct involves an interstate or foreign communication

Paging Dr Mengele

I'm working on getting a good idiomatic English translation of Streit um elfjährige Transsexuelle: Alex soll in die Psychiatrie - taz.de

But in summary.....

A Nurse decides (probably on religious grounds) that Transsexuality is due to parental upbringing, so the eleven year old child will be confined to a locked ward in a mental hospital - then, in the unlikely event she can pretend to be "cured", placed in a foster home, so her supportive mother will never see her again.

And the court agrees. No expert medical opinion is needed. The appeal has been rejected.

Moral of story: don't support your Trans child, or they'll be taken from you, given "reparative therapy", and you'll never see them again. If they live.

I think it unlikely they'll ever release her. Apparently the last girl given this treatment suicided as soon as she was given the opportunity.

I can understand why, if that was the only means of escape. European Catholic psychiatric establishments when aided and abetted by sympathetic courts have something of a reputation.

An appeal to a Federal court is underway... but apparently until then, she'll be given "masculinising" treatment to coerce her into accepting others' Reality, one completely contrary to medical opinion. Her mind will be damaged, not merely hurt.

It's not that the doctors at the clinic are evil. Merely grossly incompetent, ignorant, opinionated, and experimenting on children. They don't see themselves as heirs to another grossly incompetent, ignorant, opinionated medical experimenter, one Dr Mengele, but that's what they are.

UPDATE: While I was working on an idiomatic translation, this one became available. It's pretty good. From Scallywag & Vagabond

The case of an eleven year old child who goes by the alias Alex Kaminsky has once again stirred debate as to Germany’s stance towards gender neutrality, sex and clinical devices of purity, especially in light of its torrid history with respect to forced sterilization and aspirations towards racial purity.

At the heart of the matter can a young girl and her mother decide what is best for her daughter who biologically was not born a girl but wishes to pursue a female gender or are they obligated to subscribe to the courts view which at present allows open the possibility of the child being institutionalized whom according to human rights group now fear the child will be exposed to a type of redressing with the expressed intent of correcting what is implicitly perceived to be mental deficiencies of a the child.

The commotion came about as Berlin’s Kammergericht this past Thursday re affirmed a lower court’s decision allowing the state to institutionalize an eleven year old. At the time of the ruling, the child’s mother who had sought therapy for her child but to date has been inexplicably denied reiterated that she will now take her case to the constitutional court in an effort to allow her eleven year old to remain living as a female despite being born a male, something the mother supports.

The incident initially found itself in front of the courts as a consequence of the girl’s parents separating and being of different opinions as to how the medical treatment of the child should proceed, with state youth office mandating that the child should be treated in an institution before eventually being made available to a foster family.

Implicit in the court’s decision is the very real possibility that the child may now be preempted from pursuing her desire to live as a female, and exposed to a type of indoctrination that does not promote gender neutrality or choice. Also of concern is whether the child is too young to completely understand the ramifications of her choices and the technical legality that German law requires before one can have a sex change or at least begin the process of hormone adaptation to become one’s innate sense of gender.

To date the youth office has asserted that it believes the best interest of the ‘child ‘ would be achieved if it were removed from a sphere of influence that is predisposed to the girl asserting a female identity . This of course raises the question can a child’s ‘transsexuality’ be induced without the child resisting?

To date no reported incidents exist where a child was forced to accept a gender re alignment against their will, which has stirred the plaintiff’s lawyer to argue that a nurse which the youth office assigned has on the back of one single solitary hour long meeting been able to insist that the mother has sought to unduly influence the child in their choice of gender. The plaintiff’s lawyer has also expressed shock and reticence that to date their client, the mother and daughter have been denied the right to an expert report or therapy, something that the youth office is unwilling to yield to.

Come this Monday at 3pm, human right activists will protest on behalf of the child. Argue the group who go by the banner attache ‘Stop Alex forced into institutionalization at once’: “Institutions like the youth office and the Charité use force on humans through enforcement and psychological pressure! Each gender and each gender identity is a right, not a disease.”

Activists are particularly disturbed with the state’s view that the child might be mentally diseased and thus seeking to institutionalize it to ‘correct’ what it perceives to be mental deficiencies which would run counter with the notion that gender isn’t necessarily what one is born with but what one innately relates to and chooses.

Already a signature campaign as organized by British transsexual activist Katrina Swales is under way to challenge the court’s decision. Asserts Katrina Swales who to date has amassed over 9000 signatures: “This young girl gets taught that her feelings are wrong. She gets pushed into self denial more and more. Something that has already cost the lives of so many transsexuals.”

In light of the court’s current stance a deep mistrust amongst human activists has been instilled who fear clinical assessments may be adopting sterile dispositions towards gender choices and other aspects of human rights manifestations especially in light of a nation known to have had a torrid history with respect to gender rights, discrimination and what has to date been publicly left unsaid, previous ethnic purity aspirations.

Seems Plausible

Sex and Gender Evaluation TEST RESULTS

S.A.G.E. Test Results

Your Raw Score is: 660, which indicates that overall you are Feminine

Your appearance is Feminine

Your brain processes are mostly that of a Female person.

You appear to socialize in a feminine manner.

You believe you have major conflicts about your gender identity.

You indicated you are physically Intersexed to some degree.

ANALYSIS:

Since you indicated you were born with an Intersex condition, it is likely that this has caused you some degree of gender conflict because society in general is not accepting or understanding of gender ambiguity. Since it is difficult to live in a purely androgynous gender role, please check the most appropriate analysis below.

NOTES:

Your answers indicate you have altered your physical appearance to look like the opposite sex.
Your Answers indicate your psychological state has likely prevailed since you were quite young.

ANALYSIS AS Male:

Male to Female Transsexual, either post-operative or in transition

NOTES:

Your answers indicate you have altered your physical appearance to look like the opposite sex.
Your Answers indicate your psychological state has likely prevailed since you were quite young.

ANALYSIS AS Female:

No conflicts, you appear to fully accept your physical sex and gender identity.

NOTES:

Your answers indicate you have altered your physical appearance to look like the opposite sex.
Your Answers indicate your psychological state has likely prevailed since you were quite young.

AC360 - The 'Sissy Boy' Experiment

There's rather more on George Rekers in various posts on this blog over the last few years.

His attitude towards inconvenient facts is summarised below, from The Christian World View of Psychology and Counseling:

6. Scientific Method

We affirm that the scientific method is useful in carrying out the creation mandate of Genesis 1:28 to subdue and have dominion over creation when the investigators have Biblical presuppositions and when the Bible does not directly give us the answers we seek; that the use of the scientific method is entirely controlled by the presuppositions of the investigators and therefore the results are a pronouncement of faith rather than of scientific fact; and that the faith nature of the results of scientific investigation is evidenced by the investigators' proselytizing intent, that is, their attempt to transform man into their idea of what man should be. We deny that the scientific method can ever be applied in psychology without its being thoroughly determined by the presuppositions of the investigators.

And this is the resulr.

Similar, though far less harsh, methods are used by Dr Zucker in CAMH in Toronto. Her realises that he can;t "pray away the Gay", but he does claim he can "pray away the Trans", with only 15% of gender nonconformant kids ending up being Trans not Gay. "Gender Nonconformant" means exactly that, in most the degree is mild. They're not Trans in the first place.

As for George Rekers? From his website:

He earned his Ph.D. in psychology from the University of California, Los Angeles, his M.B.A. in executive management from Southern Wesleyan University, and his Doctor of Theology (Th.D.) degree from the Faculty of Theology and Religious Studies of the University of South Africa.

Dr. Rekers has delivered many invited research presentations on child and family variables before committees of the United States Senate and House of Representatives, and has served as an invited expert for White House staff and several presidential cabinet agencies such as the Department of Health and Human Services.

He has delivered over two hundred invited lectures in universities and academic societies in dozens of countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America, the Middle East, and in Western and Eastern Europe.

Professor George served as one of the multidisciplinary experts for the legal team that successfully defended the state of Florida’s law prohibiting adoption of children by homosexually-behaving individuals all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, in the case Lofton v. Secretary of the Department of Children and Family Services.

Dr. Rekers is a past recipient of the NARTH Sigmund Freud Award for his research contributions on child gender identity disorder.

His work is still being cited as bona fide by Vanguard University's Psychology Department in their Parenting section. It is, after all, a Christian University.

HOW many sexes?

A comment on Billions of Sexes (Part 1) by Martine Rothblatt, on the Institute for Ethics & Emerging Technologies site

I differ from the author only on emphasis, and degree. However, these differences have important effects.

Let's start with the idea that there are male and female brains. They differ anatomically, and these differences correspond to different stereotyped behaviours, regardless of upbringing. This is most obvious in girls who have CAH, masculinised brains, and a male preference in play patterns, even though they have a normal female upbringing.

Now that we've established that idea, that it's objectively observable.. we have to tear it down. It's just the first step in Wittgenstein's ladder.

The brain is a complex structure, not a simple one. Any particular individual can have a more masculine anatomy in one area, a more feminine anatomy in others. The sexually dimorphic features have considerable overlap. Within any one area, few are unambiguously male or unambiguously female. The difference is statistical. Moreover, in the higher brain, hormonal balance plays a role in changing the brain's physical anatomy. Treat a male with female hormones, some of his brain structures will feminise. The brain is plastic in many areas, experiences and social environment causes physical changes, and much of what we call "gendered behaviour" is as the result of arbitrary socially constructed factors.

OK, understood that? Now discard it, it's the second step on the ladder.

The brain is not homogenous; different parts have different effects, and while some parts are plastic, others are not. While much "gendered behaviour" is a social construct, some is not, and is remarkably resistant to change. This is most obvious in Transsexual people, whose neuro-anatomy is female in some areas, male in others, and corresponds to neither in yet others. When the Lymbic nucleus is feminised, typically feminine emotional patterns are found, and these lead to a feminine gender identity. When the Superior Parietal Lobule (SPL) is feminised as well - as it often is - the "body map" is for female primary and secondary sex characteristics - breasts, vagina etc - and any mismatch with reality causes immense distress.

This also explains such observed phenomena as "phantom limb syndrome", and the widely variable emotional response to hysterectomy or mastectomy. Also too the variable response to any natural masculinisation of a female-at-birth body due to 5ARD or 17BHSD syndromes, which can cause a superficial "natural sex change".

What this means is that a binary model of sex and gender is merely a rough approximation. A better one is a trinary one, with male, female, and bigendered (approximately 1/3 in each category). But that still doesn't capture the multi-variance and fuzziness of the situation adequately. A small percentage won't fit either model, or indeed, any such gross over-simplification.

References (to substantiate my assertions):

Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. - Rametti et al, J Psychiatr Res. 2010 Jun 8.

Prenatal hormones versus postnatal socialization by parents as determinants of male-typical toy play in girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia” Pasterski VL, Geffner ME, Brain C, Hindmarsh P, Brook C, Hines M Child Dev 76(1):264-78 2005

Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure by Pol et al, Europ Jnl Endocrinology, Vol 155, suppl_1, S107-S114 2006

Biased-Interaction Theory of Psychosexual Development: “How Does One Know if One is Male or Female?” M.Diamond Sex Roles (2006) 55:589–600

Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency. Cohen-Kettenis PT. Arch Sex Behav. 2005 Aug;34(4):399-410.

I'm including this as a post because it summarises and encapsulates my conclusions so far. It's a bit more complex than this, but the 3 steps on Wittgenstein's ladder are enough.