Today President Obama will meet with the nation’s top bank executives in the President’s “latest push for lenders to take greater responsibility as the nation combats an economic crisis that began on Wall Street.” “The president is looking forward…[to discussing] the need to increase small business lending and the Administration’s plans for financial reform,” a White House spokesperson said.
This morning on NBC’s Today, RNC chair Michael Steele said that in order for banks to start lending to small businesses, the federal government should reduce the unemployment tax:
STEELE: Well, I think, first off, he should recognize that banks aren’t going to lend money to people who can’t pay them back. … So there’s — there’s this whole cycle of not understanding exactly how the economy works with respect to small-business owners. Take that pressure off of them. Let’s — let’s eliminate the capital gains tax. Let’s reduce the unemployment tax.
Watch it:
The unemployment tax is a tax levied on employers in order to provide payments of unemployment compensation to workers who have lost their jobs. Unemployment insurance provides a vital lifeline to more than 10 million Americans currently looking for work in an environment where jobs are scarce. Moreover, the benefits also provide fiscal stimulus as they are almost certain to be spent and put back into the economy quickly. Economists estimate that one dollar put towards unemployment benefits contributes about $2.15 to economic growth.
So Steele’s solution to fixing the economy is to take away benefits from those who have lost their jobs. If these taxes are reduced, who will pay? Rather than raid unemployment benefits, the Obama administration is proposing to assist small businesses through funding from the TARP program, which Republicans also oppose.
This isn’t the first time Republicans have sought to limit funds to unemployed Americans. Before the Senate passed its jobless benefits package last month, Senate Republicans held up the bill for four weeks, which prevented more than 200,000 Americans from receiving the benefits.
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Republicans: When they aren’t proving that their brains don’t work, they’re showing that the hearts don’t either.
December 14th, 2009 at 2:57 pmUnemployment benefits are just socialistic support of lazy people.
Handing billions to banks and investment houses who were so greedy and stupid they screwed themselves is saving the economy.
Out of curiosity, just what viable product does Wall Street produce?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:04 pmsomeone let Mikey near a microphone again didn’t they?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:06 pmSTEELE: So there’s — there’s this whole cycle of not understanding exactly how the economy works with respect to small-business owners.
Not just small-business owners, Mike. you guys don’t understand how the economy works on any level. But don’t let that stop you from offering bold new solutions (TAX CUTS! PRIVATIZE!).
I’m sure they’ll work this time.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:07 pmTypical GOP solution. Take MORE from the poor and working class, give MORE to the rich. Afflict the afflicted and comfort the comfortable. Isnt that the GOP motto?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:08 pmAre we sure that George Soros isn’t paying Mikey to make conservatives look foolish?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:08 pmLet’s send him this. He understands pictures, doesn’t he?
http://www.wimp.com/unemploymentgrowth/
December 14th, 2009 at 3:09 pmthat’s exactly the clarity of vision that will earn steele the honor of having a tent city named after him.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:10 pmShorter, Mikey…We are in a very deep hole, dig faster!
December 14th, 2009 at 3:11 pmLet’s take the pressure off of Mikey & get him unemployed.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:13 pmFor some reason they think our motto is ‘Drain baby, drain’. Stupid pig people.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:13 pmMike, it was a bank robbery and you were one of the getaway drivers.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:14 pmLet’s take away their healthcare, paid for by taxpayer dollars. See to it that are denied any benefits whatsoever if they lose their jobs. Have them stand in line at a free health clinic. Send them to a food bank where its difficult to keep the shelves stocked. I’m so sick and tired of their arrogance and cavalier attitudes. How can they not get how disingenuous they are?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:14 pmHow do we create jobs?
r: Cut taxes
How do we increase gov’t revenue?
r: Cut taxes
How do we make health care affordable?
r: Cut taxes
How do we cure cancer?
r: Cut taxes
How can the Cowboys win in December?
r: Cut taxes
How can Tiger remain faithful?
r: Cut taxes
All equally viable answers to the questions.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:15 pmSorry, but…Mikey, you do realize that when the hole gets so deep and you keep flinging the crap up and it can’t out of the hole, it will drop back onto your widdle punkin head. Right?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:15 pmSTEELE: So there’s — there’s this whole cycle of not understanding exactly how the economy works with respect to small-business owners.
…a cycle caused by the presence of Republicans in government.
Hey, taking away American’s health care is working so well for them, why not Social Security and Unemployment as well?
Wow, 2010’s going to be easier than I thought.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:16 pmThe fact is there are 6 people officially counted as unemployed (Current Population Survey) for every job available (Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey) in the latest BLS statistics. This means, Mr. Steele, there are not enough jobs for everyone wanting work, never mind at a living wage. So, you see, your big idea of ending unemployment benefits will only increase suffering for millions.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:17 pmI do not seriously listen to anything Steele has to say. After all, he is just a token for the conservative white man’s club and really has no power whatsoever – he’s a joke.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:17 pmliberalinaredstate says:
How can they not get how disingenuous they are?
Oh, they get it. They just think that the voters won’t get it.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:17 pmThe ultimate goal of the wealthy Republican leaders has long been to eliminate capital gains, dividend, and estate taxes. This would create their dream of a permanent untaxed aristocracy in the US.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:17 pmif they’re going to try to force us all to relive the ’20’s and ’30’s,
then they could at least reopen Cuba.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:19 pmWell they kinda sucked at recreating the Roaring Twenties (except, y’know, for that whole “rich getting richer” thing…) but I have a funny feeling that if they get the chance, they’ll do much better recreating the Thirties…
December 14th, 2009 at 3:24 pmThis is the Spokesman for the Repug Party? Nothing says Merry Christmas and Good will toward man than taking away the very thing that keeps these people afloat.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:25 pmWillie Sutton, probably the most prolific bank robber in our history was asked why he robbed banks. His answer was because that is where the money is.
The Republican Party own the banks so they have to rob from somewhere else.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:26 pmFVNY
No it didnt. Your ignorance is appalling. We do enjoy the free clown show but we dont really need the re-cap of what Rush is telling you to think lately. You are incredibly stupid and brainwashed and this whole thing has already been gone over a hundred times. Your delusional fantasies notwithstanding no one FORCED Banks to make bad loans. That is just one more lie morons like you have been brainwashed with
December 14th, 2009 at 3:27 pmaaronk, the government never “forced banks to lend to sub-prime borrowers”.
The government allowed banks to lend to sub-prime borrowers and banks jumped at the chance, seeing only the cash flow from closing costs and balloon payments.
Do you really think the government forced Ditech and all those clowns to advertise their no money down/no documentation required loans on cable TV?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:27 pmThe crisis started when the goverment forced banks to lend to sub-prime borrowers.
Please explain how the ‘Government forced banks’ to run non-stop ‘no MONEY DOWN! Bad Credit? NO Problem!’ ads on television?
Do you recall Fannie or Freddie ever running any of those ads?
’cause I don’t. Have you forgotten everything?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:27 pmThe crisis started when the goverment forced banks to lend to sub-prime borrowers.
Blow it out your butt.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:27 pmi remember GWB crowing about “highest rates of home ownership” and “ownership society” and so on. almost as though he was trying to pick up political points by taking credit for the housing bubble, and the stock market bubble created by the Securities Mondernization Act of 2000.
but of course, the Bush’s have never had close ties to the world of Wall St. financiers.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:27 pmGreed St. isn’t happy owning America; they want to OWN THE WORLD!
December 14th, 2009 at 3:29 pmIn a way i do feel a little sorry for our trolls. as look how stupid there handlers and masters are, so that will rub off on them as well.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:29 pmBut then again i feel for them but i just can not reach them.
Should we read all that stuff, or just what the righty pundits wrote about it?
I think we’ll get different results unless you specify.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:30 pmI know I shouldn’t due to the continuation of disrupting the topic, so my apologies in advance, but…
What made matters even worse was that many lenders spent millions of dollars to lobby state legislatures to relax laws that could have protected borrowers from taking on mortgages they really couldn’t afford.
That’s a huge part of the crisis that many, especially on the right, often overlook.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:31 pmO/T:
Millions of missing Bush admin. e-mails found
WASHINGTON – Two nonprofit groups say that computer technicians have found 22 million White House e-mails from the administration of President George W. Bush.
The two groups say the electronic messages were previously mislabeled and effectively lost.
An announcement Monday by the two groups is the latest development in a controversy that surrounded the failure by the Bush White House to install an electronic recordkeeping system.
LINK
December 14th, 2009 at 3:31 pmfrom the “Declaration of the Summit on Financial Markets and the World Economy” 11/15/08
Did you wanna talk about the weak underwriting standards, unsound risk management practices, increasingly complex and opaque financial products, and consequent excessive leverage created by the Gramm Leach Bliley act?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:32 pmNow THAT is redundant.
Right, aaronk?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:32 pmFVNY says:Read about the Community Reinvestment Act and how it altered the economy over the last 15 years!
You know why dont you at lease come up with something anything on how it altered the economy please.
And he I am going to act like you
show me links
thanks for trolling in free america
December 14th, 2009 at 3:33 pmRead any real economist!
I just posted the considered opinion of the G20’s collection of economists!
Guess what?
They disagree with your assessment of the causes!
Weird, huh?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:33 pmAaronk, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim the evil government under GW forced the banking industry to destroy itself when as we speak the same industry is spending millions of dollars to maintain the lack of regulation that allowed them to rape our economy with impunity. Money they got from the taxpayers to bail their sorry, greedy butts from the sewer they made themselves.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:33 pmFVNY,
Why did the credit rating agencies lie about the quality of the investments? Why did AIG sell multiple credit default swaps on every security. Why were these companies leveraged at 30 to 1 when 10 to 1 was the standard?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:34 pm“real economist” = george will?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:34 pmFVNY, you show your ignorance once again. What caused the problem was the investment bankers created $44 trillion in unsecured derivitives. The government did not force them to play this ponsi scheme.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:34 pmAfter 40 years of hard work I lost my job do to the recession causing cutbacks in advertising…25 years at the same shop….boom gone…and no hope of finding another job…they don’t hire people over 50.
So I am sure glad I have PAID INTO THE SYSTEM FOR 40 YEARS…now I need a little of it back.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:35 pmWould a Nobel Prize winner in Economics count?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:35 pmFVNY
I dont have to. I KNOW about it. I also know most of the banks and financial institutions that got into trouble werent even COVERED under the CRA. Since CRA started in the 70’s I suppose you are telling us it took thirty years for the trouble to show itself. My GOD you are stupid. I also KNOW, since unlike you I actually understand things, that CRA NEVER made banks make bad loans. I could explain this to most people and have done so several times but you are too stupid to understand simple math much less this. We KNOW what Rush TOLD you to believe it is just a wonder you are stupid enough to swallow such ignorant tripe.
By REAL economist I guess you are excepting the recent NOBEL PRIZE winner in economics and are pointing us to the posers that Rush recommends. You are so stupid and so brainwashed it is just simply pathetic
December 14th, 2009 at 3:36 pmAs, yes… the free-market fundamentalist’s version of “both parties are corrupt!!!”
December 14th, 2009 at 3:36 pmI read the G-20’s assessment. It’s vague. They blame unusual financial products and barely discuss the sub-prime fiasco. I find that weird!
Well then you really don’t understand what economists are talking about when they talk about ‘financial products’ do you?
Hint- one big one was SUB-PRIME MORTGAGE BUNDLES… huh, I thought you read ‘real economists’ all the time, that’s weird.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:38 pmfvny keeps his “real economists” in the same drawer he keeps his “real climate scientists”.
it’s not a big drawer, but there’s still plenty of room.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:38 pmA con artists dream…yeah, I defrauded them but they let me!
Case dismissed.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:38 pmFVNY
Regurgitates HIS take on economics and the miracle of market forces. It is religious dogma. No facts can convince him of REALITY and no evidence is necessary for religious dogma. Even though one of the things that helped bring ABOUT the financial meltdown was deregulation and ending regulatory reigns like Glass Steagal.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:39 pmlittle mikey steele better watch out…if he keeps up his shinnegans he may be applying for those unemployment benefit he wishes to get rid of
December 14th, 2009 at 3:40 pmNo, the CRA didn’t have teeth until the Clinton administration!
Well, the timing is right but the bill that caused it is wrong… look up Gramm Leach Bliley and banking de-regulation…
or don’t.
You’re really out of your depth here… if I were you, I’d go back to defending racist Christmas parody songs… that seems more your speed.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:40 pmShorter FVNY:
December 14th, 2009 at 3:40 pm“Read some generic, unspecified article that I won’t link to, because even I know it’s crap.”
the funniest part of gwb’s “highest rates of homeownership” line of self-promoting bull was that news outlets were carrying data on the record rate of foreclosures and bankruptcies at exactly the same time.
tone deafness?
or just rank opportunism?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:41 pmSo… you’re saying the a Nobel Prize winner in Economics doesn’t count as a “real economist”?
Quelle suprize.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:41 pmFVNY is a brainwashed moron who only believes those who agree with him. It doesnt matter that the entire educated world disagrees. He is just plain stupid and hates facts and reality the way slugs hate salt.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:41 pmFVNY says:
“Krugman is a Nobel Winner in Economics like Obama is a Nobel Winner for Peace. Hahahahahaha!”
so sayeth the repukeliscum sore loser. by the way, shitstain, when was the last time a repukeliscum won an internationally recognized award, and not some bullshit award they made up like dummya’s “peace prize”?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:41 pmEugene, when you’re right, you’re right, dude.
It’s religious dogma with aaronk. As it is with all free-market fundamentalists.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:43 pmI guess Steele figures people out of work aren’t going to vote
December 14th, 2009 at 3:43 pmrepublican anyway, so screw em.
Hilarious! That makes my day, thanks Marie!
December 14th, 2009 at 3:44 pmRethuglicon 101:
* Reduce or eliminate unemployment benefits
December 14th, 2009 at 3:44 pm* Privatize social security
* End medicare
* Oppose affordable health care
* Eliminate food stamps programs
* Against legislation which helps home owners keep their homes
* Anti-choice for women
* Against the employees free choice act
* Support tax cuts for the extremely wealthy
* Have no problem wasting trillions of $$ on two failed wars
* Support corporate socialism
* Support usury (condemned in the bible)
* Oppose equal rights for ALL citizens
* Oppose unions
* Support fascism & a authoritarian theocracy
* Support hate & racism
* Support military action over diplomacy
Let’s see, the investment market is basically operating on free market principles with little to no regulation.
The economy is in the toilet due to shoddy business practices and greed.
Obviously the answer is the government is to blame.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:44 pmAnd yet again, The GOP showing us how disconnected they really are from “ordinary” Americans! Why do people still vote for them?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:44 pmFVNY
You are just stupid and brainwashed. CRA never made banks make bad loans. After Glass Steagal was repealed the banks no longer CARED if the loans were paid back since they were only going to bundle and sell them anyway. The financial institutions didnt care either since they know what morons like you will never accept. Risks are always socialized, so they made debt a commodity, they KNEW there was no risk, we have always had socialism for the rich and if things went south they would get bailed out just like they did, just like the Savings and Loan fiasco and meanwhile they would get to keep all those short term profits. It is the junk bond scam all over again dressed up in new clothes
December 14th, 2009 at 3:45 pmOSThoLe, don’t go trying to judge irony.
You’re not equipped.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:45 pmLet the rethuglicons hijack the Boston Tea Party, we progressives should unite and take on the cause of Shays Rebellion!
December 14th, 2009 at 3:45 pmFVNY says:
Didja miss the big hint I gave you about ‘exactly what those are?’
HINT- I also gave you the root cause… banking de-regulation.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:45 pmWell to be fair to the G-20, aaronk, I don’t think they were targeting this report to functional illiterates like yourself.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:47 pmMathazar – exactly. “well, if they don’t have any money or a home, then they won’t make it to the polls next November, and we’ll stand a chance of picking up 3-4 seats in the House.
On the scale of relative strategic merit, I’d give it a 2 for effectiveness and a 9.9 for pettiness. Right on par with R’s averages.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:47 pmSo aaronk, you were a little vague and I may have just too quickly…
do you consider a winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics to be not a “real economist”?
I’m curious.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:48 pmThat’s an absolutely brilliant idea! We should have thought of that last year when the meltdown started! If they do decide to pull unemployment benefits [which would financially bankrupt the middle class], who will be left to provide the next financial bailout needed by the phucking banksters because with the lousy new regs just passed, it’s inevitable this will happen again? The poor can’t bail anyone out and with no middle class left, would they be forced to ask their friends for financial aid and expect a “yes” answer in reply?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:49 pmTo the troll who voted against my comment @ #70. What’s the matter? Do you not agree with the list I provided or is it that you just can’t handle the truth about your beloved party?
Perhaps the rethuglicons are interested in opening debtors prisons too? So troll if something on the list I’ve provided is incorrect please feel free to educate me and/or debate me on the list.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:50 pmThe unemployment tax is a tax levied on employers in order to provide payments of unemployment compensation to workers who have lost their jobs.
SteelyMike either:
Didn’t know this.
or
Could give a shit less, because it is something that corporations want shitcanned.
Whaddya think… A, B or all of the above.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:50 pmI feel sorry for Bernie Madoff. He had a lousy lawyer. All he really needed for a defense was, hey, I wasn’t doing anything Wall Street was doing! How come they aren’t up on charges or in jail?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:50 pmbut explain to me how allowing financial institutions to cross sell products led to the financial crisis?
I thought you read the G20’s report?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:50 pmThey explained exactly that pretty well in there.
FVNY says:
Read about the Community Reinvestment Act…
OK.
If it was passed in 1977, why didn’t it destroy the economy during, say, Reagan’s term? If it was creating an unsustainable mortgage bubble, why didn’t the Savings & Loan crisis during Bush 41’s term trigger it’s collapse? How did Clinton completely avoid any problems from it? Or Bush for most of his two terms, for that matter?
No empirical evidence… now where have we heard that before?
But wait, it gets better:
So in fact, the more your bank was regulated by the CRA, the less they engaged in subprime mortgages. Got that? The CRA actually prevented the problem from being worse than it otherwise might have been!
Thanks for spurring me to look into that, FVNY. I learned a lot.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:52 pmFVNY
GOD you are stupid. Frankly you are too stupid and uninformed to even BE in this conversation. I explained it above. It allowed EXACTLY what I described which BEFORE the financial institutions could buy those mortgage banks and sell the debt COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. As soon as Glass Steagal was gone they began doing EXACTLY what it was meant to stop and this led directly to practices that sped along if not precipitated the crisis. What is it with you brainwashed morons telling us progressives who our God is. It is YOU brainwashed imbeciles that do the cult of personality thing not us. My GOD you are just pathetically stupid
December 14th, 2009 at 3:52 pm88 – of course you do. you’re paranoid and defensive.
and more than a little offensive.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:52 pmFVNY says:
“I think that the Nobel committee has an agenda.”
because we all know those damn swedes are known for having an agenda…
December 14th, 2009 at 3:53 pmI think that the Nobel committee has an agenda.
Ya think? And maybe it hasn’t been bought by your buddies yet? It is really evil when some foreign bunch just refuses to listen to your drivel, isn’t it?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:54 pmFVNY
I think YOU are a brainwashed moron who dismisses anything that doesnt conform to the delusional fantasies Rush has programmed you with
December 14th, 2009 at 3:54 pmFVNY
You wont explain anything. You are cripplingly stupid. You couldnt explain mud to a PHD
December 14th, 2009 at 3:55 pmFVNY says:
“Really? You show me where and I’ll explain to you how you obviously misinterpreted.”
because clearly a pox news brainwashed shitstain knows reams more than economists. right, teabagging filth?
December 14th, 2009 at 3:56 pmFairlySTUPID
Just STFU moron. No one takes you seriously
December 14th, 2009 at 3:56 pmReally? You show me where and I’ll explain to you how you obviously misinterpreted.
Please, people are tired of your delusions.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:57 pm“Bush E-mails Found: 22 Million Missing E-mails From George W. Bush White House Recovered…”
Just in time for Xmass!
December 14th, 2009 at 3:57 pmFVNY says:
You progressives love to bash GLB. Yes, I understand it repealed parts of Glass Steagall that was created under your God’s (FDR) administration but explain to me how allowing financial institutions to cross sell products led to the financial crisis?
————————————————————–
The Glass-Steagall Act provided the proper oversight and entity separation that would prohibit banks and other financial companies from merging into giant trusts (conflict of interests) — giant trusts or corporations being more powerful, naturally, and having the seemingly limitless capital to lobby their corporate interests, however, with a very myopic scope (particularly when it comes to factoring in potential losses — most banks, as seen in contemporary times, chose not to anticipate losses in the mortgage market; they presumed home prices would continue to appreciate).
In 1999, former republican Senator Phil Gramm set out to completely gut the Glass-Steagall Act, and did so successfully, replacing most of its components with the new Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act: allowing commercial banks, investment banks, and insurers to merge (which would have violated antitrust laws under Glass-Steagall). Sen. Gramm was the driving force behind the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, as he had received over $4.6 million from the FIRE sector (Finance, Insurance and Real Estate donations) over the previous decade, and once the Act passed, an influx of “megamergers” took place among banks and insurance and securities companies, as if they had been eagerly awaiting the passage of Gramm’s Act. Everything in between Glass-Steagall and Gramm-Leach-Bliley (i.e. Savings and Loan crisis/bust) was, in large part, the incubation period for what would take place over the nine years that would follow the passage of Gramm’s Act: an experiment in deregulation.
Shortly after George W. Bush was elected president, Congress and President Clinton were trying to pass a $384 billion omnibus spending bill, and while the debates swirled around the passage of this bill, Senator Phil Gramm clandestinely slipped a 262-page amendment into the omnibus appropriations bill titled: Commodity Futures Modernization Act. It is likely that few senators read this bill, if any. The essence of the act was the deregulation of derivatives trading (financial instruments whose value changes in response to the changes in underlying variables; the main use of derivatives is to reduce risk for one party). The legislation contained a provision — lobbied for by Enron, a major campaign contributor to Gramm — that exempted energy trading from regulatory oversight. Basically, it gave way to the Enron debacle and ushered in the new era of unregulated securities. Interestingly enough, Gramm’s wife, Wendy, had been part of the Enron board, and her salary and stock income brought in between $900,000 and $1.8 million to the Gramm household, prior to the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act.
http://losangeles.injuryboard.com/miscellaneous/the-subprime-mess-and-phil-gramm-an-experiment-in-deregulation.aspx
December 14th, 2009 at 3:58 pmThe GOP and the Bush administration has done all they can
December 14th, 2009 at 3:58 pmto legislatate favor and contracts to big corporations and tax exeptions
for giant retailers, like Walmart.
With this corporatist advantage, and little control of the collection
of owed taxes on internet sales, small retail businesses come to the
“free market” playing field encumbered with a heavy tax burden
that cripples any fair competition.
Paying into our remaining employee’s unemployment insurance
is teeny, tiny, potatoes.
Um, somebody needs to tell Mikey that the role of the Grinch has already been cast for the touring stage company of “How the Grinch Stole Christmas”…
Maybe he could understudy, though.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:59 pm92
swedes are norse.
vikings were norse.
vikings called greenland green.
greenland was green.
swedes are socialist.
therefore, a viking named obama krugman begat the global warming hoax by awarding the nobel prize to algore, and using acorn as a cat’s paw to force the banks to let minority welfare recipients buy million-dollar south beach condos.
and if that’s not perfectly clear to you, you’re obviously a fascist!
December 14th, 2009 at 3:59 pmAnnie
Who got the role? Was it Newt GinGRINCH?
December 14th, 2009 at 4:00 pmhttp://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/11/20081115-1.html
Here you go, aaronk… you tell me where I’m misinterpreting the call for more stringent and transparent regulation at both the national and international level… thanks.
Here’s a handy excerpt:
December 14th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
tombaker
The saddest part is that is basically the story Rush has brainwashed his Limborg hordes into believing
December 14th, 2009 at 4:01 pmFairlySTUPID
You cant argue ANYTHING cogently. You are insufferably stupid
December 14th, 2009 at 4:03 pmFairandBalanced says:
How can you argue with actual economists and actual history?
Oh, by ignoring both and posting drivel like ‘LOL?’
Carry on…
December 14th, 2009 at 4:03 pmDon’t worry Aaronk. You can still believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and any other mythical thing you want. We won’t laugh at you.
Well, at least no more than we already do.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:03 pmkids don’t actually say “the darnedest things”.
righties do.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:03 pmFairlySTUPID
STFU MOOOOOOORRRRRRRON
December 14th, 2009 at 4:05 pmFairandBalanced says:
“because clearly a pox news brainwashed shitstain knows reams more than economists. right, teabagging filth?
FVNY, how can ya argue with that? LOL!
Thanks, Bozo!”
truth hurts, beyotch and you can’t argue with it. it’s non-negotiable even when dealing with teabgging filth such as yourself.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:06 pmFVNY
I mean we already GET that you are monumnentally stupid but you dont GET the nick thing? REALLY? Doesnt it ever embarass you to be so incredibly stupid?
December 14th, 2009 at 4:06 pmWhat a tool….why not just announce that all controls on business as well as taxes should be removed. That’s what big business has told the repubs to do, so off they go. It worked sooooo well for Wall Street…heck, let’s keep doing it!
December 14th, 2009 at 4:07 pmpoor widdle teabagging fiwlth
December 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pmall upset because someone questions their intellectual credentials when all they do is spew talking points and post plaigarized posts.
FVNY says:
Why did your mother name you FVNY?
December 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pmFace it, Aaronk, we have an unregulated free economy and have had it for over 8 years and it is failing horribly and the only thing saving us is the intervention of government. Minimal as it is to date.
Too bad, so sad.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:09 pmTo the ignorant troll and to everyone else. We should all both democrats & republicans, liberals & conservatives, demand that congress repeal the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and rewrite or repeal the Commodity Futures Modernization Act AND reinstate Glass-Steagall Act immediately!
This isn’t a left/right thing this all about adding legislation which would put an end to what caused the financial sector collapse. If you are a real American, who was angered by the bail out of the Banks and Wall Street you would be calling your representative in DC and demand this or we will have a repeat crisis in the near future!
December 14th, 2009 at 4:10 pmFVNY has committed a terrible foopah. He has acknowledged the exisitance of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act. Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX) was the major villian in this crime, as well as the Enron debacle with his Commodity Futures Modernization Act, as noted in the information provided by Uncle Fester. These pieces of legislation have destroyed huge sections of our economy, and have caused untold misery for millions of Americans.
Most right-wing Republicans know to ignore any mention of this horrible tale of right-wing corruption and devastation. They pretend as if Phil Gramm (R-TX) and his corrupt wife Wendy never existed, and his legislation is an unknown mystery.
FVNY has some explaining to do to his wingnut friends.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:13 pmWell FVNY showed up, spewed another rightwing fairtytail and got SPANKED, badly. Another day another ignorant wingnut dealt with
December 14th, 2009 at 4:13 pm“At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,” said the gentleman, taking up a pen, “it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.”
December 14th, 2009 at 4:13 pm“Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge.
“Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
“And the Union workhouses?” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?”
“They are. Still,” returned the gentleman, ” I wish I could say they were not.”
“The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?” said Scrooge.
“Both very busy, sir.”
“Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,” said Scrooge. “I’m very glad to hear it.”
“Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,” returned the gentleman, “a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?”
“Nothing!” Scrooge replied.
“You wish to be anonymous?”
“I wish to be left alone,” said Scrooge. “Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don’t make merry myself at Christmas and I can’t afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments, I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.”
“Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.”
“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. …
You first.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:14 pmUncle Fester Lurks says:@123. Amen. Yessir. Rock on.
And we can also hope it isn’t too late.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:14 pmFVNY has cheetos stains on his peepee.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:15 pmGee, for someone who was so hard on the G-20 for being “vague” that answer was a little non-specific.
When you advise people to “Read any real economist!” does a winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics count, or not?
December 14th, 2009 at 4:17 pmFVNY
Get your lies STRAIGHT moron. First it was CRAs fault. When shown this fantasy didnt hold water you thrash around like a drowning man, trying desperatly to deny and avoid the obvious that it was deregulation and NOT interference with the market that was the key culprit. So yeah the gov deserves some of the blame for DEREGULATING THE MARKET.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:18 pmfairly unbalanced,
December 14th, 2009 at 4:18 pmyou know you get punked by everyone, everytime you slink in here right, shitstain?
FairlySTUPID
FOAD you ignorant pile of dogshit
December 14th, 2009 at 4:18 pmThe government needs to accept a portion of the blame!
Very true. It needs to acknowledge that banks aren’t to be trusted and need to be strongly regulated. That the lack of government oversight initiated by the Republicans needs to be reinstated because the financial industry is not to be trusted with self-regulation. And the sad sack idiots who kneel and worship at the altar of free market greed need to go lay by their dish and hope no one spanks them with a club.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:19 pmBobwurst says:
“FVNY has cheetos stains on his peepee.”
his toothless, invalid mother gave him “ring around the pecker” servicing him.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:19 pmFVNY
That is just another of your delusions. You come here everyday and demonstrate how stupid and brainwashed you are and get taken apart like a cheap watch. We KNOW you are a liar, that is proven, whether you are too stupid to even KNOW how badly you get PUNKED or whether you are just lying about it is irrelevant anyone who can read sees that you are an ignoreant loser who pretty much NEVER knows what you are talking about
December 14th, 2009 at 4:20 pmIt must be what he comes here for.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:21 pmSteele is the perfect representative for the GOP. He doesn’t know anything about anything and doesn’t give a rip about anyone who doesn’t make huge campaign contributions. But the really sad part is that thousands of out of work, screeching, teabaggers will sit there and say, “good idea”.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:22 pmYou don’t really understand what the term “regulation” means, do you? Maybe that’s your problem right there.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:22 pmNo, he didn’t.
Ready to answer now? It doesn’t seem like aaronk wants to tackle this one.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:23 pmralph the wonder llama says:
FairandBalanced says:
OSThoLe, don’t go trying to judge irony.
You went to which law school?
You first.
Another cliche for the list, ralph!
December 14th, 2009 at 4:24 pmAaronk, how can you be so simple? The last 8 years, the current financial debacle stole from you! The banksters played fast and loose with your money, lost their asses and then begged you to give them the money to keep doing it. And they are spending your money to convince the government that should have the opportunity to do it again.
And you are defending them!
December 14th, 2009 at 4:24 pmI was thinking the same thing, gum.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:24 pmFVNY
You again demonstrate how stupid and brainwashed you are. Since by now even someone as intellectually deficient as YOU must understand CRA was NOT a reason for the downfall why do you still rail against it? The answer we all know is it is one of those buzzword villains that your Limborg masters has programmed you to vilify. You are like a Chatty Kathy doll. When you get the stimulus you respond with your talking point programming. Financial Crisis=CRA. You cant help yourself. You really are that stupid and brainwashed
December 14th, 2009 at 4:25 pmHere’s a regulation, no CRA, no government guaranteed loans, and no bailouts. The rest will work itself out.
Financial Institutions and Markets CAN’T be expected to police themselves when the Government is allowing them all that freedom and backing their loans!
The only answer is to allow the Financial Institution and Markets to police themselves and hang EVERYBODY out to dry!
It just makes sense…
/snark
December 14th, 2009 at 4:25 pmTrue small businesses are also burdened with maximum state and city taxes, while larger competitors that promise to provide more jobs and tax revenue are often given exemptions.
BTW, the estimated $52 billion of taxes from internet sales that was uncollected last year didn’t help distressed state economies, as we are seeing where I live.
All are good reasons to buy locally, and support your community.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:25 pmralph,
December 14th, 2009 at 4:25 pmthe problem is these clowns don’t “understand” anything other than the talking point pox news pumps into their empty little noggins…
Then there’s the stupid trolls. Somehow, they managed to convince themselves that drug addicts should be put in charge of pharmacies. Here’s the deal, stupid trolls.
The reason for regulation is that, if one puts those with the most to gain by stealing in charge of the purse strings, they will steal. Every effing time.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:26 pmSo are YOU ready to give a straight answer?
When you advise people to “Read any real economist!” does a winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics count, or not?
Yes or no. Simple.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:26 pmFairlySTUPID
Since you are so stupid you apparantly dont even KNOW who Krugman is or that he taught at Yale, London School of Economics, MIT and other elite universities long ago. Why should we bother? STFU you are too stupid to be in this conversation. You are an ignorant pile of dogshit and a worthless punkass troll with NOTHING to offer
December 14th, 2009 at 4:27 pmFVNY @ 169 says:
————————————————————-
Finally you are making some sense. Yes the government, both parties need to shoulder some of the blame! Bob Rubin, Alan Greenspan, Phil Gramm and a bevy of other appointed and elected officials are too blame for this.
But for republicans to solely blame this on Clinton, Frank, Fannie & Freddie is ludicrous when the democrats got back into power in 2007. The collapse was in motion way before 2007.
For democrats to solely blame it on Bush, Gramm and the republican majority this is also ludicrous. Both parties were compliant, both passed Gramm-Leach-Bliley and failed to read the full Omnibus spending bill where Gramm slipped the Commodity Futures Modernization Act into the spending bill of 2000.
Arguing back and fourth, pointing fingers at whose to blame is pointless and is probably what both parties want as it takes the focus off of those two hideous bills. As I stated earlier, call your representative and demand that they repeal those two bills and reinstate Glass-Steagall. If we put enough pressure on them, if enough Americans call their representatives, they will not be able to ignore us! It is up to we the people to get them to make these changes! Let your voice be heard!
December 14th, 2009 at 4:28 pmWith Steele’s comments, I am reminded of the line from the movie Little Big Man when General Custer speaks of the Muleskinner: “he is a perfect reverse barometer”. That is what Steele is, what ever he says, by definition, must be wrong.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:28 pmAfter you answer Ralph’s question would you mind answering this one, FVNY?
How is it that the Financial Institutions could not be expected to police themselves BEFORE but the only answer to this crisis is to allow the Financial Institutions to police themselves NOW?
Thanks.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:28 pmFVNY
YOU are a shameless liar that gets sheer joy out of telling lies. Krugman is considered one of the pre-eminant economists in the world PERIOD. Sucks that you are so stupid and brainwashed all you can do is spew out the idiocy about him and pretty much everything else that the Limborg has programmed you with. I guess you KNOW you are too stupid to think for yourself so all you can do is humiliate yourself showing constantly how stupid you are
December 14th, 2009 at 4:29 pmFairlySTUPID
FOAD you worthless piece of filth
December 14th, 2009 at 4:30 pmFairandBalanced says:
“When you need an economic policy spun to make the left look good, call Krugman!
Isn’t he the go-to man for foreign policy, too?”
yeah shitstain, it’s a new boogeyman for you to fear! paul krugman, the princeton economics professor. boo!
December 14th, 2009 at 4:30 pmFairlySTUPID
YOU certainly are the go to TROLL for the most ignorant tripe imaginable
December 14th, 2009 at 4:31 pmFair&Balanced, you obviously don’t really give a damn about our country or our economy, just like your party, you have no real solutions. You just come here like a chimpanzee and throw feces around.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:33 pmWall Street has been allowed to turn into the world’s largest casino and the players have become addicted. Their answer to loses is to doubledown.
We, as a country, need to pull them back and fight their addiction and go back to investment banking.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:34 pmHooda
EXACTLY 90% of all investment USED to be productive. NOW 90% of all investments are speculative bets
December 14th, 2009 at 4:35 pmHoodathunk says:
Wall Street has been allowed to turn into the world’s largest casino and the players have become addicted. Their answer to loses is to doubledown.
We, as a country, need to pull them back and fight their addiction and go back to investment banking.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:36 pm————————————————————-
Word!
We, as a country, need to pull them back and fight their addiction and go back to investment banking.
Or, as FVNY prefers, we need to recognize that they COULDN’T help themselves from doing the wrong thing BEFORE… the only answer is to trust them to do the right thing NOW.
Right, FVNY?
December 14th, 2009 at 4:39 pmWhole schools of economist disagree with Krugman.
Yeah, but it was those ‘Chicago School’ guys who got us INTO this mess in the first place.
Why should we give THEM an award for being WRONG?
December 14th, 2009 at 4:40 pmFVNY
You are a shameless liar and a moron. You KNOW you are too stupid to think for yourself so you just spew out what your Limborg masters have told you to think. My GOD you are so stupid you embarass our entire species
December 14th, 2009 at 4:40 pmFairlySTUPID
FOAD you ignorant pile of dogshit. That has already been debunked ON THIS THREAD. You are too stupid to be breathing the air of decent human beings
December 14th, 2009 at 4:41 pmYou’re right. Hoodathunk.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:41 pmInvestment in those without any legal accountability is nothing but a crapshoot, with loaded dice.
FVNY…you have got to be one of the biggest idiots on the face of the Earth and that isn’t an accomplishment. Krugman may have been wrong on a few things but many of his theories are spot on. If you weren’t so thoroughly brainwashed and bias, you would see this.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:42 pmFairandBalanced says:
Wow. Did you just skip over the entire thread that dealt with the CRA directly?
I have to know… can you actually read?
(Although I don’t know how you’ll know I’m asking if the answer is no… I guess I’ll just take your silence as confirmation, thanks!)
Oh, almost forgot… ;)
December 14th, 2009 at 4:43 pmFairlySTUPID
Shove it up your tarhole you imbecilic punkass troll
December 14th, 2009 at 4:43 pmThat is true. They are schools like the University of Chicago’s Department of Economics, whose professors created the supply side economic theory, which has wreaked economic devastation everywhere it has been tried.
We aren’t going to listen to the people who caused the problems anymore.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:46 pmHmm… still no straight answer…
Yes or no: When you advise people to “Read any real economist!” does a winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics count, or not?
Yes or no, aaronk. Real simple.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:46 pmFairlySTUPID
You ignorant racist pile of dogshit. There was NEVER any pressure to make bad loans. The pressure you are talking about was to end redlining. It was PROVEN by investigative reporters that banks were refusing to make loans to minorities with the EXACT credit histories or BETTER credit histories and standing than whites. The Atlanta Constitution won a Pulitzer proving this. My GOD you are a moron, a racist, AND an ignorant brainwashed cretin.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:47 pmFairlySTUPID
You are ignorant and brainwashed. Your post was a long ago debunked pile of idiocy. You are far too stupid to be taken seriously. Do yourself a favor. STFU and stop humiliating yourself
December 14th, 2009 at 4:49 pmFairandBalanced says:
Why should we read (borrowers with weak credit histories) for minorities do you think?
Why did it take over 20 years for this insidious plot of Carter and the leftists to take effect?
Who forced financial institutions to start offering ‘futures’ for these loans? Was that part of the Carter madness?!? Getting poor people into homes and then leveraging that debt in the futures market to SCREW AMERICA MORE THAN TWENTY YEARS DOWN THE ROAD?
God, it’s insidious!
/snark
December 14th, 2009 at 4:49 pmFairly Stupid Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac held less than 20% of the bad loans. You brainwashed right-wing tools keep focusing on that shiny object, while ignoring the banksters, who walked away with all the money. You deserve to get taken.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:50 pmPsst… FandB?
http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/fannie_mae_and.html
December 14th, 2009 at 4:51 pmThey do deserve to get taken, but the problem is, you know they’ll drag the rest of us down with them, just for spite.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:51 pmThe roots of this financial crisis go back to the Carter administration. Look up the “community reinvestment act.”
Oh yeah. That’s why we had the Savings & Loan Crisis when Ronnie and the elder Shrub had to pay for Carter’s plan. And why the S&l’s and credit unions have weathered this recent debacle because they weren’t allowed to go play big casino.
And it is why, after over 70 years of regulation, the banking industry remained reasonably sound until GS was repealed and they were given free rein. And in 10 years managed to trash the economy.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:51 pmThat’s not what I said, stupid troll. I decided to leave after an unsatisfying exchange with the staff at TP. Since then, I have received a satisfactory reply to my concerns. It’s as simple as that.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:52 pmFairlySTUPID
Spends three posts PLAGIARIZING an opinion piece by a Boston Globe editorialist. He is a brainwashed moron, a liar and a plagiarist who KNOWS he is too stupid to think for himself
December 14th, 2009 at 4:52 pmAnd some of us are greatly relieved to learn this, pete.
You can understand why the trolls would be upset.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:53 pmFairandBalanced says:
The roots of this financial crisis go back to the Carter administration. Look up the “community reinvestment act.”
————————————————————
Another myth and blatant lie by those on the right who want to deflect from the reality of Gramm-Leach-Bliley.
Community Reinvestment Act had nothing to do with subprime crisis
http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html
December 14th, 2009 at 4:54 pmhttp://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr318.html
Psst, FNVY?
Here’s EXACTLY how all those ‘financial products’ became so obscure and opaque… and how that crashed the economy… it ain’t the CRA they’re talking about…
December 14th, 2009 at 4:56 pmFairlySTUPID
Why are YOU so stupid, such a liar and a plagiarist?
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/
December 14th, 2009 at 4:56 pmFairandBalanced says:
Huh. Read the report and find out.
How about that?
December 14th, 2009 at 4:57 pm“belly up” actually means “go out of business”.
(we could all chip in and get these guys a link to a dictionary for xmas)
December 14th, 2009 at 4:58 pmFairlySTUPID
You are a plagiarist. I just proved it. Simple as that
December 14th, 2009 at 4:59 pm“Die on the left?” Is this yet another death threat from the deranged FVNY troll who says he has to fight the urge not to murder his fellow Americans?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:00 pmtombaker, I’m pretty sure that a link to a dictionary for these guys would be as useful as teats on a boar hog.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:01 pmThe main purpose of Glass Steagal was to limit risk. It was designed to tell the banks, we need X amount of money to pay the bills, feed the family. You guys can invest and play with a percentage of the money but we need to make sure that we maintain a base.
When they repealed GS, they allowed the banks to risk everything. And in just a few short years we learned, when you gamble to much, you lose everything.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:02 pmaaronk… er, FVNY… straight answer? Yes or no?
Got that in ya, buddy, or what?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:02 pmwas that a bond movie i missed?
or bruce willis?
bond vs. willis?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:02 pmSo yes, the bankers were to blame, but they wouldn’t have conducted these risky practices without the government’s intervention.
http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr318.html
Here’s how and why they conducted those risky practices… you’re right it was the Government’s fault but your wrong to blame the CRA… look at the banking de-regulation that made these games possible…
December 14th, 2009 at 5:03 pmBelac, don’t try to confuse aaronk with responsible reporting and facts.
He has enough to do just to keep the dots connected in his head. If you keep making those dots disappear, how’s he ever gonna make it work?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:04 pmFVNY
You are full of it. Most of the loans made were NOT guaranteed. That is what caused many of the banks to go under. They WOULDNT have if the loans had been guaranteed. You AGAIN try to blame CRA when it has been SHOWN that those institutions under CRA did much better than those who werent and most of the troubled institutions werent under CRA at all. It is harder to seperate a Bengal tiger from a porkchop than a brainwashed hivemind moron like YOU from your Limborg talking points. You care NOTHING about facts or reality you will just continue to spew what you were programmed with on cue like the propaganda parrot you are.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:05 pmHow exactly do these idiots explain how we, as a country, were growing at an amazing clip, were increasing the strength of the middle class by leaps and bounds, were the largest creditor nation on the planet, and were producing and exporting at a height never seen before or since, and all under the watchful eye of government regulation…and then we took the regulation away and “boom” it all comes crashing down?
How does one reconcile this? They are actually saying that the economy crashed due to a 30 year old piece of legislation (or 50 years worth if you take FVNY at his word that he apparently thinks FDR was an idiot despite the unbelievable success of his programs) and it was simply coincidence that it happened less than 10 years after a critical piece of regulatory legislation was repealed. What kind of moron looks at this and says “yeah…that makes sense”??
I’ll tell you what kind – the kind that sees a dead dog on the road next to tire tracks and concludes that it got struck by lightning.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:05 pmCombine the CRA and the government guaranteeing loans to sub-prime borrowers and you had the perfect storm.
Waaaaaa. It took over 30 years for this storm to break. And Lincoln freed the slaves! Look how badly that turned out!
December 14th, 2009 at 5:05 pmif a few hundred thousand low-middle income people (and houses) were able to “bring down” the multi-trillion dollar monumentally brilliant global system of the freemarket superbankers,
then how good, really, was that system?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:07 pmFVNY
You are an ignorant brainwashed punk. You dont trust the fed or Nobel winning economists or facts and reality. You dont trust anything that doesnt conform to the delusional fantasies you were brainwashed with. You DEFINE pathetic and stupid
December 14th, 2009 at 5:07 pmPerhaps you ought to give us a list of your pre-approved sources, aaronk. You seem to accept or dismiss sources simply based on whether they agree with your scenario or not.
And frankly, the former is a relatively small list.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pmSmidget, I think I love you. Great post at 216.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pmFairlySTUPID
CRA is MORE than thirty years old you ignorant pile of dogshit. Plagiarize much? You are pathetic
December 14th, 2009 at 5:10 pmF&B
CRA. The moron has been blaming CRA for the entire thread. CRA was passed in 1977, which (following along yet?) makes it 32 years old.
Now I know why you people are so shitty at running the economy…you can’t even fcuking add.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:10 pmFairandBalanced says:
You AREN”T blaming the CRA for the economic meltdown?
(well the CRA and borrowers with weak credit histories read: Minorities, right?)
;)
December 14th, 2009 at 5:11 pmI think it’s Barney Frank’s fault, smidget.
See, he made a speech when Republicansd controlled the White House and both houses of Congress and that brought the whole thing crashing to the ground.
oh, and Jimmy Carter made banks lend to po’ black folk thirty years after he left office.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:11 pmFVNY
My GOD you are stupid. You are also a liar and a moron. Krugman TAUGHT economics at the London School of economics which is world famous, Princeton, Yale, MIT, and others. He is the very definition of an expert. YOU are the very definition of a brainwashed moron
December 14th, 2009 at 5:12 pmJeez, it’s like pulling teeth to get you to admit that when you said “Read any real economist!” you didn’t mean that to include a winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics.
So can you clarify for us, aaronk, what qualifies one as a “real economist”?
thanks ever so much.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:14 pmFairlySTUPID
You BROKE the plagiarism meter. You have been outed as a MORON who has to plagiarize because you KNOW you are too stupid to think for yourself
December 14th, 2009 at 5:14 pmOnce again, OSThoLe, you’re really not equipped to judge irony.
And I’m pretty sure you’re not trained to read an “irony meter”.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:16 pmFVNY says:
Here’s a regulation, no CRA, no government guaranteed loans, and no bailouts. The rest will work itself out.
Whereas “work itself out” means “completely collapse,” yes.
Anarchy is inherently unstable, in the economic sphere as elsewhere.
.
FVNY says:
Krugman is a leftist with a PHD in Economics. His ideas are political not economic theory. That’s why he won the Nobel Prize. Same reason Obama did.
As you don’t understand his economic analyses, you’re in no position to support such a claim.
I suppose you disagree with the work of Nobel winners in Chemistry, Physics, etc as well?
This thing of you refusing to believe respected neutral sources and calling everything but freepers “biased” is getting stupid. You don’t get to define bias. You haven’t demonstrated that you even know what bias actually is.
.
FVNY says:
Combine the CRA…
FairandBalanced says:
The pressure to make more loans to minorities (read: to borrowers with weak credit histories) became relentless. Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act…
Page up, fools. Your claims have already proven to be the exact opposite of true. The degree to which lending institutions were underwriting sub-prime mortgages has been found to be inversely proportional to the degree by which they were subject to the CRA. Which means the CRA actually helped to mitigate the effects of the crash. Without it, the meltdown would have been a lot worse.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:17 pmFairlySTUPID
Yeah I got a question. Did you take PILLS to be so stupid or is it a natural gift? I got another one. Doesnt it embarass you to KNOW you are too stupid to think for yourself so you have to plagiarize others to even PRETEND to know what you are talking about?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:17 pmWe all do need to understand that there are certain people in this world who think expertise in a subject is not related to experience, education or training. Expertise comes from gut feelings and faith.
Sort of like in the 12th century.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:17 pm232 = ‘authentic, fron-tier jibber-jabber”
h/t Mel Brooks
December 14th, 2009 at 5:18 pmAs a point of fact, stupid troll, I did address namejacking. Unfortunately, the only person who can be sure about that particular offense is the person whose name has been hijacked. If someone has hijacked your name, I would suggest sending an email to the staff. “Flagging” is unlikely to result in any action but I’ve been assured that emails will.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:18 pmI think I’ll file this away in my troll archives.
I have a feeling this quote will come in very handy someday soon.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:19 pmNailed it.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:19 pmFVNY
It isnt my fault you are so stupid. You are moving the goalposts again. You dont LIKE CRA because you are brainwashed and programmed to blame it for the financial meltdown. We SHOWED that was plain ignorant. You dont care. You just repeat what you were TOLD to regurgitate on command because you are just that stupid. Yeah I know about guaranteed loans MORON. The thing is guaranteed loans dont make banks fail because…WAIT FOR IT…THEY ARE GUARANTEED. My GOD you are stupid
December 14th, 2009 at 5:20 pmralph
I’m with you. But don’t forget that in the end it’s all Obama’s fault. This is easily determined by realizing first that the same people that forged his birth certificate and put the fake birth announcements in the newspaper were determined that he would one day be president, so they, on his command of course, put in place all of the “help the poor” legislation when he was only a teenager so the economy would be juuuuuust about read to collapse catastrophically when he was running for the White House.
This was all set up to make him appear as our knight in shining armor…but thank goodness we have geniuses like FairandBalanced and FVNY to set us all straight!
December 14th, 2009 at 5:22 pmWhy? Have I made an issue of dismissing a source in this thread?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:22 pmFairlySTUPID
For future reference can you just TELL us when you are plagiarizing? We understand you are too stupid to think for yourself but it would help to guage WHO is telling you what to think
December 14th, 2009 at 5:22 pmSo by supporting redlining and blaming the CRA, aren’t the wingnuts here claiming that economic stability requres institutional racism to function? I don’t see any other way to interpret that.
FVNY says:
Krugman got his Phd for studies on international trade and finance. His Op-Ed articles are his opinion on political and economic issues. So if you’re asking me if the opinions of one person on a subject for which that person is not an expert is enough to rely on when making a decision affecting millions of people, then my answer is NO!
Tell you what, let’s have both sides throw out people who bloviate on topics tangential to any credentials they possess and see who does better, ‘k?
But when Krugman’s espousing a political course of action, he is doing so as someone who knows what he’s talking about when it comes to how political courses of action affect the economy. When you talk about the same thing, you’re actually the one who isn’t an expert. Ditto everybody who agrees with you. None of the people the right wing puts forward as “economic experts” have even remotely the degree of credentials that Krugman does.
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FairandBalanced says:
carter….cra…….frank/dodd/pelosi……..obama/turbotaxcheat……and here we are.
Any questions?
Yes. How do you manage to dress yourself in the morning?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:24 pmMore to the point, have I invited folks to read any source only to then disallow a prominent voice that fit the original criteria?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:24 pmlet’s just use the list of credentialed economists who are not coincidentally am talk radio show hosts.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:26 pmFairlySTUPID
Yeah we get that Rush and the other screechmonkeys do your thinking for you too. Still when you are plagiarizing IF you could let us know so we can judge which wingnut is doing your thinking for you on THAT subject it would help. You lying, ignorant plagiarizing pile of dogshit
December 14th, 2009 at 5:26 pmFVNY says:
So the CRA regulated institutions defaulted less than non-regulated institutions. That doesn;t mean its a good policy dipshit.
That does mean that the CRA was not a cause of the meltdown, as you and F&B both claimed.
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FVNY says:
And many of the loans were guaranteed, ever hear of the FHA?
If you want to now try to claim that the cause of the meltdown was the FHA, go ahead. I’m all ears. We can address that as we did your now-debunked CRA claim.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:31 pmO.K. For the sake of argument, let’s say that Carter screwed the pooch. If that is the case, why didn’t the Republicans, who have held the White House for 20 of the last 30 years and had the House the Senate or both for much of that time, do anything to redress it? Why has Republican rule, rather than fixing the problems allegedly left from the Carter Administration, resulted in the worst financial collapse in 80 years?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:35 pmFVNY
You didnt HAVE a point you ignorant babbling baboon. You have a mismash of talking points and you flit from one to another as they are debunked then flit back to them even AFTER they have been refuted. You are stupid, you are brainwashed and you dont even have a CLUE what you are talking about.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:35 pmFVNY says:
did you come around to the part where less regulation is the answer for businesses that couldn’t regulate themselves, yet?
I’m anxious to hear that?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:36 pmum, fvny,
when we use those numbers, the big economy kind,
it makes a really big difference how many decimal places are involved.
(sometimes, a squirrel is just a squirrel)
December 14th, 2009 at 5:38 pmOh noooooooo. The government might guarantee some loans! All those poor people wanting to buy their cheap houses just puts such a burden on the economy.
So why did we have to give over 700 million dollars to Wall Street again?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:39 pmFVNY
We did a lot more than that you ignoramus. We showed it had been around for thirty years BEFORE the meltdown we showed that MOST of the trouble instutions werent even UNDER CRA and those who were did BETTER. My GOD you are just too stupid to comunicate with. That talking point has been debunked the fact you are just too stupid to understand pretty much anything doesnt change that.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:40 pmthere would have been no incentive to these banks to book these toxic loans.
I see. The government clouded the eyes of the investment bankers, tricked them into accepting all of these bad loans that people just thrust upon the poor innocent bankers.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:41 pmwall street’s total bonus money this year will be > than the total value of subprime mortgaged homes.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:42 pmFVNY
No you didnt explain anything. For 70 years of regulation they DIDNT fail, deregulation they DID fail and to a brainwashed moron like YOU it means regulation made them fail. To someone as stupid as YOU less regulation is the answer. Like I said this idiocy is religious dogma to you. It doesnt HAVE to make sense it is just faith based
December 14th, 2009 at 5:43 pmchild labor, environmental responsibility, worker safety. American business has a great history of self regulation….
December 14th, 2009 at 5:45 pmYes, Aaronk, I see your logic now. The poor weak banks had to bow to all the federal pressure. They couldn’t resist the Farce.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:46 pmPeople that state their opinions and that decree “case closed” are idiots….
December 14th, 2009 at 5:47 pmWithout government intervention, there would have been no incentive to these banks to book these toxic loans.
Certainly almost going under is an incentive not to do it right?
And there was no guarantee that the Government would bail all these banks out, was there?
Isn’t that what all you conservatives decry? Let ‘em fail, right?
So if that is true, shouldn’t self-preservation have motivated these banks not to over-extend?
huh, it’s almost like Ayn Rand is dead wrong and self-interest doesn’t always lead to rational decision making… like regulation is a necessary evil to keep things on the up and up… in fact, that’s EXACTLY what it’s like.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pmThat is just rich. Thank you, stupid troll.
Seriously though. The incentive to gamble with other peoples money doesn’t come from the government. It comes from human greed.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pmYes, dbadass, Americans are such weak pillars of moral turpitude. We, as a society, hold that profit is secondary to right.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pmAlso, so the CRA regulated institutions defaulted less. That doesn’t mean its a good policy.
So it worked better than the other thing! Doesn’t mean the other thing doesn’t work better!
/snark
Seriously, arronk?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:50 pmFVNY
That is what you SAID. Still there WAS a CRA. My GOD you are so stupid it is like trying to explain quantum mechanics to a housecat. Whether CRA is good policy is a completely different discussion than if it caused the financial meltdown.
The stupidity of your argument is stunning. CRA caused the meltdown we showed it didnt. It is bad policy. That is different than causing the meltdown. Guaranteed loans caused it. They CANT since they are guaranteed, they are bad policy, that is a different discussion. CRA AND guaranteed loans caused the problem. Are you retarded?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:51 pmMaybe if we trust American business to not hire undocumented workers and just self regulate that whole undocumented workers problem will go away…
December 14th, 2009 at 5:51 pmWithout government intervention, there would have been no incentive to these banks to book these toxic loans.
Oh yeah, banks give loans because the government tells them they have to do it.
That’s why they are such nonprofit organizations.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:52 pmWho you gonna believe, aaronk?
Ayn Rand or your lying eyes?
December 14th, 2009 at 5:55 pmAyn Rand? Was she one of those strippers who used the feather fans?
December 14th, 2009 at 6:01 pmits hard to figure out if republicans are:
just cold
December 14th, 2009 at 6:04 pmjust ignorant, or
cold and ignorant
Oh geez, an epiphany! Banks aren’t about profit! They are humanitarian agencies, secretly controlled by the government who hand out money to unworthy people so they can have tax write offs.
I apologize for being so foolish as to think that banks had a prime directive of making money in any way they could so that the shareholders could live in more luxury than the greedy pissant who ran them.
My mistake.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:06 pmThose poor, defenseless banks.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:07 pmAaronk, should we take up a collection for those poor Wall Street types?
Oh wait, we already did.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:10 pmFVNY says:
No, guaranteed loans just cause the government to steal taxpayers money to make good on bad loans that they guaranteed in the first place.
We’re still waiting for a shred of evidence that loan guarantees were a causal factor leading to the mortgage crisis.
FYI, saying it over and over again doesn’t count as “evidence.”
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FVNY says:
CRA wasn;t debunked. All you leftists did was show that the CRA loans defaulted at a lesser rate. Doesn;t prove anything. CRA was still part of the problem.
Financial institution A is subject to the CRA. Financial instution B is not. Financial institution A underwrites very few sub-prime loans. Financial institution B underwrites lots of them. Therefore, being subject to the CRA causes financial institutions to underwrite fewer subprime loans. The CRA was an inhibiting, rather than a contributing factor to the mortgage crisis.
Corollary 1: if all of the financial institutions were subject to the CRA, there would have been a lot fewer sub-prime loans, and thus the industry might not have collapsed, or might have held out longer.
Corollary 2: if none of the financial institutions were subject to the CRA, there would have been a lot more sub-prime loans, and thus the industry would likely have collapsed a lot sooner and harder than it did.
If “the problem” to which you refer is the mortgage industry collapse, then the CRA was the opposite of being part of it.
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FVNY says:
Only in your sick world does that mean that the CRA is a good policy!
If by “my sick world” you are referring to reality, then yes.
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FVNY says:
I explained that already. Without government intervention, there would have been no incentive to these banks to book these toxic loans. Case closed!
Case opening back up… how do you explain the incentive for banks to underwrite sub-prime mortgages with regulation? What’s the link? Connect the dots for us here.
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FVNY says:
Wake up!
Ah, the age-old death rattle of a desperate conspiracy theorist…
December 14th, 2009 at 6:10 pmFVNY says:
Without government intervention, there is no incentive on the part of the financial institutions to undertake this risky behavior.
LOL! Then how do explain financial institutions exhibiting “risky behavior” before any regulations existed? You’re as dumb as a bag of sh!t and a lot less useful you inbred fool.
Without adequate regulations and oversight, “greed” will cause criminals of all sorts to ruin the financial system you libertarian loon. If that’s what you want – move to Somalia the Libertarian paradise where you belong you ignorant dum bass d*uchebag.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:17 pmFairandBalanced says:
The roots of this financial crisis go back to the Carter administration. Look up the “community reinvestment act.”
The roots of your ignorance goes back to your cheating on exams. Read the responses, think about it, and then don’t come back here.
December 14th, 2009 at 7:05 pmReally? The agents didn’t make money when they closed the loans? The originating lender didn’t make money when they sold the loan to a bundler?
They had no incentive to book these toxic loans? except for “government intervention” of course.
Hm. I can see why the tighty-righties are soooo afraid of the gubmint. They is POWERFUL!
December 14th, 2009 at 7:19 pmso the CRA regulated institutions defaulted less. That doesn’t mean its a good policy.
Actually, that’s exactly what it means.
CRA = less defaults
No CRA = more defaults
It doesn’t take a genius to see a policy that works. We are, however, clearly not dealing with a genius here.
December 14th, 2009 at 7:38 pmsmidget, I think I’ve narrowed down the source of most of the policy disagreements between right and left these days. It’s all a matter of perspective.
See, we think that a good policy makes situations better.
They think that a good policy aligns with their ideology better.
December 14th, 2009 at 7:45 pmhey, ralph – do you think that the local grocery stores automatically restock the tin foil when they see these guys coming in the door?
December 14th, 2009 at 7:47 pmYou’re dead on, ralph. They could give a crap less about making things better. They are so desperate to be right that they refuse to even consider that there may be another way of doing things (one that may actually work, even).
That is the sign of a severely disturbed, incredibly immature person.
December 14th, 2009 at 7:48 pmWhat a coincidence — you’ve just described the psychology of the current Republican Party.
AND the teabaggers too.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:04 pmGeez, ralph. It’s like we’re sharing a brain today.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:10 pmI kinda like that, smidget. it’s sexy.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:22 pmYou know there is a saying;
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.”
That is the Republican party. Lower taxes and deregulate. Let the market take care of itself. It’s done so poorly so far, lets try it again and expect a different result.
December 15th, 2009 at 11:43 amOh and the sad thing is that there are many more idiots out there like FVNY ( for example, my dad) who still say that the CRA caused the housing crisis. The sad thing is, my dad is actually a defense contractor with a PhD. in physics from UCBerkeley…..I guess education and intelligence really arent the same.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:40 pm