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Think Progress

Tea Party Judge Roger Vinson ‘Borrows Heavily’ From Family Research Council To Invalidate Health Law

BERJAYA

FRC President Tony Perkins


The most surprising part of Judge Roger Vinson’s ruling was his argument that the individual mandate was not severable from the health care law as a whole and must therefor bring down the entire Affordable Care Act. “In sum, notwithstanding the fact that many of the provisions in the Act can stand independently without the individual mandate (as a technical and practical matter), it is reasonably ‘evident,’ as I have discussed above, that the individual mandate was an essential and indispensable part of the health reform efforts, and that Congress did not believe other parts of the Act could (or it would want them to) survive independently,” Vinson writes.

But a closer read of his analysis reveals something peculiar. In fact, as Vinson himself admits in Footnote 27 (on pg. 65), he arrived at this conclusion by “borrow[ing] heavily from one of the amicus briefs filed in the case for it quite cogently and effectively sets forth the applicable standard and governing analysis of severability (doc. 123).” That brief was filed by the Family Research Council, which has been branded as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

“The Family Research Council (FRC) bills itself as ‘the leading voice for the family in our nation’s halls of power,’ but its real specialty is defaming gays and lesbians,” SPLC says. Indeed, so-called FRC “experts” (who most recently lobbied to preserve Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell) have argued that “gaining access to children” “has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement” and claimed that “[o]ne of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets of a new sexual order.” FRC President Tony Perkins has even described pedophilia as a “homosexual problem.”

Here is how Vinson lifts FRC’s argument:

Vinson’s opinion:

Severability is a doctrine of judicial restraint, and the Supreme Court has applied and reaffirmed that doctrine just this past year: “‘Generally speaking, when confronting a constitutional flaw in a statute, [courts] try to limit the solution to the problem,’ severing any ‘problematic portions while leaving the remainder intact.’” [...]

The question of severability ultimately turns on the nature of the statute at issue. For example, if Congress intended a given statute to be viewed as a bundle of separate legislative enactment or a series of short laws, which for purposes of convenience and efficiency were arranged together in a single legislative scheme, it is presumed that any provision declared unconstitutional can be struck and severed without affecting the remainder of the statute. If, however, the statute is viewed as a carefully-balanced and clockwork-like statutory arrangement comprised of pieces that all work toward one primary legislative goal, and if that goal would be undermined if a central part of the legislation is found to be unconstitutional, then severability is not appropriate. As will be seen, the facts of this case lean heavily toward a finding that the Act is properly viewed as the latter, and not the former.

Family Research Council:

Severability is fundamentally a doctrine of judicial restraint. “Generally speaking, when confronting a constitutional flaw in a statute, we try to limit the solution to the problem.” [...]

The question of severability is a judicial inquiry of two alternatives regarding the nature of a statute. One possibility is that Congress intended a given statute as a bundle of separate legislative embodiments, which for the sake of convenience, avoiding redundancy, and contextual application, are bundled together in a single legislative enactment. This makes a statute a series of short laws, every one of which is designed to stand alone, if needs be. The second possibility is that a given statute embodies a carefully-balanced legislative deal, in which Congress weighs competing policy priorities, and through negotiations and deliberation crafts a package codifying this delicate balance. Congress is thus not voting for separate and discrete provisions. Instead, Congress is voting on a package as a whole, any modification of which could result in the bill failing to achieve passage in Congress. As both Plaintiffs‟ briefs and the following argument shows, the Individual Mandate falls within the latter category, not the former.

Vinson’s conclusion is peculiar because the courts usually defer to Congress on questions of severability. In fact, even Judge Henry Hudson — the Virginia Judge who also found the individual mandate to be unconstitutional — left the whole of the law intact noting, “It would be virtually impossible within the present record to determine whether Congress would have passed this bill, encompassing a wide variety of topics related and unrelated to health care, without Section 1501…Therefore, this Court will hew closely to the time-honored rule to sever with circumspection, severing any ‘problematic portions while leaving the remainder intact.’”

As Chief Justice John Roberts noted in Free Enterprise Fund et al. v. Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, “Because ‘[t]he unconstitutionality of a part of an Act does not necessarily defeat or affect the validity of its remaining provisions,’ Champlin Refining Co. v. Corporation Comm’n of Okla. , 286 U. S. 210, 234 (1932) , the ‘normal rule’ is ‘that partial, rather than facial, invalidation is the required course.’”


  • Anonymous

    theocrats are a direct threat to the republic.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    Sqwark. Vinson want a cracker?

  • Anonymous

    You HAVE seen who’s on the Supreme Court these days, right?

    I have little to no faith that they will do the right thing and strike this asshat’s ruling down dead.

  • Anonymous

    Did anyone ever doubt that the teabaggers would find eventually a compliant judge willing to parrot their talking points in a ruling?

    The only surprise is that it took this long.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    The least he could have done was attribute the lines. I would think that would only be polite.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/TMUG7CJ466CHJ2GV5BFHS3RX2U Edward

    Excuse, please. Wasn’t this decided in Massachusetts?

  • Badmoodman

    • • Maybe Judge Vinson has some incredibly lazy clerks working for him and they threw this entire mess together.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    No, that was Mittencare. Totally different. /snark

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    When this case hits SCOTUS we may experience two firsts. Scalia may have a bowel movement, and Thomas may open his mouth.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    Odd they would happen at the same time. Coincidence?

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    ewwwww

  • Leftside_Annie

    HAHAHAHAH!!!!

    ….ew.

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    Don’t encourage him. ;0)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6X5WAWT3JOD52GBG2REQMVVBZI Bob

    who pays for Roger Vinson’s health care,maybe the federal government. Isn’t that universal health care

  • mhandrh

    OMG
    Plagiarism in a judicial verdict.

    This will surely go to the SCOTUS and from there, it could be anybody’s guess.
    We all know how the majority there think.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    It was an amicus brief so its all among friends.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    Does this mean that the trolls can now say if a federal judge doesn’t have to supply attribution, neither do we?

  • http://twitter.com/mattparkerfl Matt Parker

    All of these tea party types are in cooperation and in on the wider conspiracy to remake America. It is sobering when our justice system can be infiltrated by these partisan extremists…
    http://www.sunstateactivist.org

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    Felt I had to edit it, Hoodathunk. Sowwwy.

  • Leftside_Annie

    I’d say that’s more like planetary health care. The rest of us out here in the universe are kinda getting screwed over by the insurance companies…

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    Felt I had to edit it, Hoodathunk. Sowwwy.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Matt – “can be infiltrated”…? Unfortunately for all of us, it has already been infiltrated.

    Probably to the point where real justice is going to be in jeopardy.

  • Anonymous

    *incoherent ragey noise*

    It shows a breathtaking ignorance and disrespect for the law for this judge to lift nearly verbatim from the amicus brief filed by a hate group. Did he not think the plagiarism would be noticed? Did he not think that even if he doesn’t believe the FRC is a hate group, many others do, and that will reflect negatively on his ruling?

    Honestly, Tea Partiers just make me sick sometimes. This is not only poor logic, it is blatant arrogance and callous disregard of the law.

  • Anonymous

    “[o]ne of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets of a new sexual order.”
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    The FRC would be able to state this with a straight face, if only they could keep from frothing at the mouth.

    I know a number of homosexuals — several of them close enough that they would tell me if this is what they discussed at their “homosexual agenda” meetings (snark). But here’s a little secret the FRC is apparently unaware of — homosexuals hate pedophiles as much as heterosexuals do. Furthermore, homosexuals already have “access to children”. Many are, in fact, parents.

    Even Scalia will tear the Vinson decision apart, if given the chance.

  • Anonymous

    It should be obvious that someone did some serious judge-shopping to land this case in front of a Bagger judge. He admits that severability is the preferred approach for courts, admits that the rest of the law would work without the individual mandate and then uses his super mind powers to determine that Congress wouldn’t have wanted the rest of the law without the mandate.

    An activist judge! Oooh, how we hates ‘em — unless they’re Right Wing activist judges.

  • Anonymous

    a plagiarizing activist judge. That makes him a plactivist judge!

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    I, for one, am glad we have nonpartisan federal judges who listen to both sides of a case and then quote one side in their decision while ignoring years of precedents to the contrary. /snark

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    Thank you for your support, imissmolly. The FRC is indeed a hate group, and is full of it. And I can assure you the only thing we do at our homosexual agenda meetings is exchange recipes and fashion tips.

  • Anonymous

    ahem! I’m trying to coin a new phrase tonight. He’s a plactivist judge… See above!

  • katy

    Tea Party Judge Roger Vinson ‘Borrows Heavily’ From Family Research Council To Invalidate Health Law

    yeah… it all sounded like it was written by lobbyists…
    FRC is even worse…

  • http://thebookofcletis.blogspot.com/ Cletis

    Judges have a great deal of power and can do a great deal of damage. What scares me is that they are the final arbiter and set the tone for decades to come. We absolutely have to keep the White House a Republican free zone, at least, until we get rid of Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas. That means we need another thirty years. Oy Vey.

  • Anonymous

    A big difference since Bush is it’s overt.

    From speaking fees at a Bagger rally to corporate connived decisions, they’re just sticking it in our faces. Or feces.

  • pete

    Federal judges depending on the “wisdom” of religious fundamentalists. I think I’ll have to skip dinner.

  • Anonymous

    really, we just need a 5-4 that goes center or center-left.

  • http://twitter.com/Rickstersays Rickster Rickster

    the family research council, where evil comes home to roost

  • Anonymous

    headin’ directly to the bar? (i punned!)

  • Anonymous

    The RATS have infested the Court. They’re not the Jesters, they’re the King himself. Expect a fair & impartial decision for the robber barons.

  • Anonymous

    Welcome to C St. And here you thought K St. was dangerous…

  • Anonymous

    When a Judge is paid enough money he will twist the law to give the payee what he wants. The Judge knows this decision is nothing but a performance for the Koch Bros. to have enough time to buy more Law Makers and supporters. The current paid US Supreme Court Justices will do what they can but will not violate the law with an out right illegal law for fear of being impeached. To bring down the Health Care Bill we will have to removed the Constitution as even the Social Security Act is based on the Constitution.

  • Anonymous

    The FRC has been listed as a hate group by the SPLC. Right in there with the KKK and neo-Nazis.

    Judges who quote hate groups should be removed from the bench.

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    Vinson’s probably the kind of loser who would blame his clerks.

  • Austininc4

    “IMPEACH THAT REICH WING HACK!!!!!!!”

  • Anonymous

    C Street = where the Nation’s Capitol meets God

    K Street = where the Nation’s Capitol meets the Nation’s Capital

  • http://www.facebook.com/StuartRebDonald Stuart Reb Donald

    No one denies that our health care system needs an over hall but there is no part of this bill that makes health care better. Anyone who says that this bill fixed our health care system either has never read any part of it or more likely is lying. Those are the only two options.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    Maybe FL courts aren’t as choosy about their ‘friends’.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for weighing in, Stu. Nice to know I have only two options.

  • Austininc4

    Apparently you haven’t read the Bill, yourself.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    I bet the troll can give us lots of examples to justify his black/white choice.

  • Anonymous

    I like this site……I don’t like what I usually read hear in the comments section. What I mostly read is bitching about trolls or whatever worthless crap they post. It’s boring and off topic. Maybe I’m wrong but it’s still boring. Forget the trolls just ignore stupidity because it is stupid to respond to stupidity. Just my opinion. PEACE is Always Best ignoring Stupidity makes more sense and is easier . Just thought I’d say. PEACE

  • Anonymous

    You’d think even activist judges would know better than to admit a hate group supplied him with a script for his fair & impartial decision. Is he from Liberty U?

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    And since the judge admitted he hated to rule against the whole bill because of the mandate thing, I guess the bipolar types just can’t read.

  • Austininc4

    Most likely.

  • Anonymous

    The tea-baggin’ judge has nothing on our trolls. He relies on a lying hate group to support his argument and cuts & pastes like a lazy rightie.

  • Anonymous

    Are you an official of HIPA?

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    They are coming out of their closet.

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    Judge Vinson isn’t even a full time Judge; he’s semi-retired.

    Senior status is a form of semi-retirement for United States federal judges, and judges in some state court systems. After federal judges have reached a certain combination of age and years of service on the federal courts, they are allowed to assume senior status. A judge must be at least 65 and have served for 15 years to qualify, with one fewer year of service required for each additional year of age. When that happens, they receive the full salary of a judge but work only part-time.

    Judge shopping, indeed…

  • Anonymous

    Dear Lord, PLEASE protect us from Your deranged,brain-dead right-wing followers!

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    Is that your stripper name? ;)

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    I guess semiretirement isn’t as lucrative as hizzoner hoped?

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    He still gets his paycheck, but apparently he has more time to spend on his agenda.

  • pete

    Wingnut welfare at its finest.

  • Austininc4

    He’s Semi-Retied because Republican Senators are holding up over 150 Federal Judges from confirmation.

  • Anonymous

    I was on a different thread and all there was were comments complaiming about whatever BS the trolls posted. It’s worthless to complain about idiots that won’t change ignorant opinions no matter how uninformed or stupid they are, what’s the point of trying to change or insult someone that does not care about being insulted?

  • Austininc4

    Yeah, he spend his time sucking up to the FRC and the Koch Head Brothers.

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    I agree with most of what you wrote, wldj, but posting a comment bitching about bitching kinda puts you in an awkward spot, besides being off topic, which you declare to be boring.

    Just sayin’…

  • Badmoodman

     • • Judge “Palladin” Vinson: Have Gavel, Will Try

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    Being only part time might explain why he borrowed so heavily from the FRC brief. Good help is hard to find.

  • Anonymous

    Obviously the Health Care Law is Constitutional If you want me to be on topic. I don’t have health care. I have health problems mostly my teeth, try getting dental insurance without a job!!!! Try paying for it without even unemployment insurance, I guess goodbye teeth!! PEACE!!! I could say more but it’s boring and irrelevent according to some people I guess. PEACE

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    The real question is how do the Supremes rule against HCR, without creating any sort of precedent, that could come back to bite them? It was relatively easy with Bush v. Gore, but there isn’t the urgency now that the 2000 election had, so they can’t make that case.

  • Anonymous

    The “over hall” (sic)

    The overhaul will allow those with, currently, inadequate or no health care insurance to be covered. Those with pre-existing conditions can not be dismissed.
    That’s only for starters … so yes the bill would make health care better – meaning those folks would actually be able to seek medical assistance.

  • Leftside_Annie

    I have an HMO (and yes, I’m desperate enough to be grateful).

    I have an ankle injury, and it has taken 2.5 MONTHS to get a diagnosis.

    I went to urgent care for Xrays. Then a 10 day wait for an appt with my regular doc, then I waited a week for the ins. company to authorize a referral to an ortho, a 3 week wait for that appt, a referral for an MRI, waiting another week or so for the insurance to approve the MRI. I only had to wait 2 days for that appointment (woot!), and finally a 2 week wait for another ortho appointment…

    That’s very nearly 8 weeks to diagnose an ankle injury with both a ligament tear and a tendon tear, and a possible bone fracture… (with me walking on it the whole time)…

  • Austininc4

    It’s very relevant, you are an American Citizen. The Rabid Reich are playing games with peoples Lives, and it’s going to cost them in the future.

  • Anonymous

    Vinson is one lazy dude. My guess is that a law clerk gleaned the data from the Family Research Council document and that Judge Vinson simply rubberstamped the language provided by his law clerk. Now how lazy is that!

  • Leftside_Annie

    Crap. Those teabagging assholes make me sick ALL THE TIME. The stupidity, the rage, the bigotry, the homophobia…they disgust me.

  • Anonymous

    Well Zooey I was just sayin’ how it is here and you do it and know it. I wasn’t just sayin’ anything about hoodathunk anymore than I refering to you i was just sayin’. maybe that’s ok with you or not, just sayin’ PEACE

  • Leftside_Annie

    What about paint colors?? Do you discuss paint colors?

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    Fine with me, wldj.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Anyone who spells as badly as you do has no right to express an opinion in the company of educated people.

    And yes, I am a latte-drinking elitist liberal snob. And you may bite me.

  • Leftside_Annie

    *yawn*

    Wake me up when you have something substantive to contribute, k?

  • Leftside_Annie

    NO, NO, NO – it was the INTERN!!

  • Anonymous

    Vinson probably just didn’t want to get any death threats from Tea Party Republicans or Family Research Council fanatics.

  • http://medjhiesco.wordpress.com/ Hoodathunk

    A nice Gouda? Asiago? Or maybe something in sheep or goat?

  • Anonymous

    I think you mean Courts usually defer to Congress on severability.

  • Leftside_Annie

    There are a lot of us in the same boat, Wldj. I watched Lawrence O’Donnell discuss with Anthony Wiener about how the individual mandate was a sop tossed in to the placate insurance companies and Republicans.

    Perhaps this would be a good opportunity to resurrect single payer…

  • Anonymous

    Looks like Big Reb has eaten one too many cheeseburgers. Son, I hope you have health insurance because you appear to be one cheeseburger away from having a stroke or a massive heart attack.

  • Anonymous

    Check out his photo and his profile. He’s a teabagger who loves watching the food network and Anthony Bourdian.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    Ok, now this is just obscenely stupid. Palin and Beck have broken the crazy barrier, and now there isn’t a right wing person without some eccentric beliefs, and a willingness to air them:

    A Republican in Georgia’s House of Representatives has introduced a bill to eliminate driver’s licenses, arguing that the documents are an unnecessary infringement on personal freedom.

    Rep. Bobby Franklin, who represents the Atlanta suburb of Marietta, defended the bill to skeptical reporters on Monday, who questioned whether it would be a good idea to eliminate oversight of Georgia’s drivers.

    “One of your inalienable rights is the right to travel, the right to move about without needing your papers,” Franklin told WSB in Atlanta. “You shouldn’t have to have permission from the state to exercise a right that has been inalienably given to you from your creator.”

    Franklin took tough questions on the bill from a CBS Atlanta reporter who questioned what it would mean if children were allowed to drive cars.

    CBS Atlanta’s Rebekka Schramm asked Franklin, “How are we going to keep up with who’s who and who’s on the roads and who’s not supposed to be on the roads?”

    “That’s a great question,” Franklin said. “And I would have to answer that with a question, ‘Why do you need to know who’s who?’”

    “What about 12-14-year-olds who want to drive? What would stop them?” Schramm asked.

    “Well, what’s stopping them now anyway?” Franklin answered.

    “Let us answer Franklin’s question right away: Millions of parents are stopping them, in the name of a law that’s unlikely to change anytime soon,” Jim Galloway wrote at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “Another roadblock: The constant fatalities … that remind us that driving is serious business.”

    Franklin has been in the Georgia House of Representatives since 1996, and his Facebook profile describes him as “the most conservative member of the Georgia General Assembly.”

    “Representative Franklin has been called ‘the conscience of the Republican Caucus”‘ because he believes that civil government should return to its biblically and constitutionally defined role,” his House website states.

    Franklin’s legislative agenda appears to mirror many of the causes taken up by the tea party movement, including the movement’s concerns about the Federal Reserve and fiat money. Last month, Franklin introduced a bill that would require all transactions with the state of Georgia to be paid in silver or gold.

    The proposed law, intended as an effort to move the US towards a gold standard for its currency, would have “catastrophic consequences” for Georgia, Ian Millhiser wrote at ThinkProgress.

    Among other things, the U.S. Mint simply does not make very many gold and silver coins — the Mint has even suspended sales of precious medal coins when demand rises above very low levels — so it is unlikely that enough coins even exist to allow Georgia taxpayers to pay more than a fraction of their tax obligations if they are required to do so in U.S. minted gold or silver….

    Gold or silver standards leave a nation completely powerless to control its own monetary policy, often tying inflation rates to completely arbitrary factors such as the rate that gold is mined in South Africa, rather than to the interests of a national economy. Worse, it leaves a nation without one of its most important tools to push back against economic downturns. In the 1930s, the United States was one of the last major nations to abandon the gold standard, and this failure to act was one of the principle causes of the Great Depression.

    According to CBS Atlanta, Franklin co-sponsored all of the first 21 bills introduced in the new House session. Among the bills are one that would criminalize abortion in the state under all circumstances, and another that would prohibit mandatory vaccinations. Yet another bill proposes abolishing the state income tax.

  • Anonymous

    Going to be?

  • Anonymous

    I guess my main point is how reponding to idiots “trolls” distracts from the thread which is what they want. Ignoring stupity is easier than responding to said stupidity, I do it all the time, day after day. It’s easier than annoying the stupid people even if it annoys them because they are already stupid and annoyed….. But anyway we need single payer for everyone. My Dad is an ex-POW and gets not just excellent Health Care with no out of pocket expense he deserses it just like all other American. If I could pay for insurance I would but with the insurance companies refusing to insure everyone, screw them and go to single-payer government insurance that gives everyone an Equal chance to have health care. PEACE

  • Anonymous

    So are you implying that we shouldn’t respond to you? Oh shit I just did. By the way is your Dad John McCain? Just wondering.

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    What a fucking dumbass…

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    “Ignoring stupity is easier than responding to said stupidity, I do it all the time, day after day. ”

    And you have to deal with the repressed anger, and feelings of violation. I think in some cases it’s better to respond, with humor and sharp criticism when it’s warranted. Re-enforcing the “liberals are wimps” meme has never worked in online chatrooms, and poking fun
    at conservative inconsistency strengthens our morale.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Touche. …Sadly.

  • Anonymous

    Whah! Stop being mean to the teabaggers! They are persons too! They have feelings! Whah!

  • Anonymous

    Ok, I am going to be a simpleton and cynical reductionist. I predict our SCOTUS, regardless of any legal arguments, will find the individual mandate constitutional because of the simple fact that this is one item in the health care bill that is acceptable to (desired by?) the big insurance companies. It is my assumption that the SCOTUS will NOT go against corporate interests.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    He’s the “pay all debts in gold” nitwit.

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    Not the colors so much, but there’s lots of talk about the fumes. Personally I open the windows, but they tell me I’m missing out on a really good time.

  • Leftside_Annie

    O… M… G…

    Since when did God give me the right to drive a car…?

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    And if the individual mandate is ruled constitutional, the case for single-payer is greatly strengthed.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Funny how a teabagger shows up to call the posters here names because we dare to express our opinions. So predictable.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Low VOC, Ritorna. ;o)

  • mhandrh

    But we sure don’t want the govt. involved in health care do we — no no no, the insurance companies’ clerks get to decide when if and how we get treated. That’s the American way.

  • http://www.youtube.com/Bizarrobrain Bizarrobrain

    A Republican in Georgia’s House of Representatives has introduced a bill to eliminate driver’s licenses, arguing that the documents are an unnecessary infringement on personal freedom.

    *Shirt sleeve catches fire* HOLY FUUUUUUCCCCKKKK THE STUPID BURNS!!! *sprays self with fire extinguisher*

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    Bankrobbers should flock to Georgia. Just obey the speed limits and there won’t be any police checkpoint to fret about. Can’t be checking driver’s licenses, y’know.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Or we need a president/Senate/House with enough guts to impeach the activist bastards.

  • mhandrh

    LOL :)

  • mhandrh

    A play on words — LOL :)

  • http://www.youtube.com/Bizarrobrain Bizarrobrain

    I hope so. As flawed as this bill is, it’s a stepping stone towards actual reform.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    Why use drivers licenses? Just profile people, and separate accordingly.

  • Anonymous

    2 Chronicles 20:7 [Art] not thou our God, [who] didst DRIVE out the inhabitants of this land before thy people

  • Leftside_Annie

    Why, hell no! If the government was involved, I might have been able to get my MRI within a week …

    Oh, wait…

  • Anonymous

    Here in Florida where I live tea-baggers just elected a criminal that got rich ripping off Medicare. What a guy! No conscience for my governor. no, it’s all good according to this criminal. Stealing is apparently OK if you are rich and stole the money, poor people not so much. No poor people steling to eat go to jail or prison but get rich stealing…run for governor and buy it!!!! Ain’t America Great!?!? PEACE

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    Definitely V. 8o}

  • Leftside_Annie

    *facepalm*

  • mhandrh

    Actually, they may determine that they like it better than the alternative. I heard rep. Weiner, Rep. Kucinich and others say that if HCR is repealed (which is highly doubtful) the alternative is Medicare for all. Government run. Less costly. All-Inclusive.
    The present HCR actually benefits the insurance companies even as it benefits the consumer; SCOTUS says it’s not legal in 2012? Maybe it will lead to something better — the public option, or Medicare for all.
    P.S. What about the state of Massachusetts that already has this?

  • Austininc4

    That guy such be in a Federal Prison, rather than the Governors Mansion.

  • http://www.youtube.com/Bizarrobrain Bizarrobrain

    Welcome to America: Where the bad guys get away and things either stagnate or get worse not better.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    At least Florida has reasonably nice weather right now.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, I believe Skeletor Scott has about $218 million. Sen Frist’s (Tennessee) family also made hundreds of millions of dollars being an unnecessary middleman in our health insurance.

  • Austininc4

    Predictable is being a Reichwing activist Judge doing the work of the Family Research Council, and the Koch Head Brothers.

  • Anonymous

    I see no useful purpose served by denigrating Judge Vinson. He wrote a 78-page opinion carefully laying out his reasons. Argue those if you have any integrity.

  • Anonymous

    Again, I see no useful purpose served by denigrating Judge Vinson. He wrote a 78-page opinion carefully laying out his reasons. Argue those if you have any integrity.

  • Austininc4

    Yeah, a real Butter Ball….. A reichwinger for sure.

  • Anonymous

    Not a word about him being biased until AFTER his ruling. That says everything about the integrity here.

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    It’s Judge Vinson’s job to have integrity. I don’t see you demanding it from him, after lifting parts of his decision from the hate group FRC.

    It takes integrity to call out dishonesty.

  • Anonymous

    Why would it matter?

  • Anonymous

    sounds like the Family Research Council wrote it.

  • Anonymous

    Believe it or not, Scalia has signaled he may support it.

  • Anonymous

    How is the FRC a hate group?

  • Anonymous

    I went to a homosexual agenda meeting but all they wanted to do was f*ck me.

  • Anonymous

    Liar

  • Anonymous

    It’s best that they rely on atheists?

  • Austininc4

    Maybe all they wanted to do was fcuk with your little pea brain.

  • Anonymous

    Sory, I don’t get what you mean.

  • Anonymous

    I heard the SPLC has been listed as a hate group by the FRC.

  • mhandrh

    C-Street = weird – very weird and a danger to democracy.
    K-Street = greed -very greedy and a danger to democracy.

  • Anonymous

    Liar

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    Ha!!!

  • Austininc4

    No doubt Atheists stand a better chance to going to Heaven than the pseudo religious fundamentalist.

  • Anonymous

    Now neon is arguing that the religious are in favor of 45,000 Americans dying every year due to lack of insurance—-and the non-religious are saying those lives could be saved by switching to a more efficient system?

  • Austininc4

    I believe Scalia is a Crook, and is selling his office as Supreme Court Justice.

  • Anonymous

    Many Democrats like myself want the health care law repealed. Why? Because with Republicans in control of the House and possibly the Senate in 2012, if insurance can be mandated under the Commerce Clause, then Republicans can mandate we all purchase guns and a Bible, arguing that guns and a Bible do more for public safety than mandatory insurance.

    And we can’t let Republicans do that.

  • Austininc4

    It matters because that reichwing Hack is trying to deny Health Care to other Americans.

  • Anonymous

    You are not a Democrat. You are a liar.

  • Anonymous

    Especially a group designated as a hate group by Code Pink.

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/ Zooey

    If you’re a Democrat, then I’m the bloody Queen of England.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe bipolar doesn’t mean what you think it means.

  • Austininc4

    That’s the problem the Reichwing Hack of a Judge has no integrity. He’s a PAID Hack for the FRC and the Koch Head Brothers.

  • mhandrh

    Rich and influential bad guys lie habitually and get away with misdeeds and crimes — occasionally one is thrown into prison to make the system appear fair, but we know the truth — the facts are that if you are wealthy and connected, you don’t have to pay. You may even get elected to office where you can continue your crimes against the people.

  • Anonymous

    Now neon is arguing that the religious are in favor of 45,000 Americans dying every year due to lack of insurance—-and the non-religious are saying those lives could be saved by switching to a more efficient system?

  • Austininc4

    No doubt the FRC wrote his Opinion.

  • Anonymous

    Why didn’t the White House attorneys ANTICIPATE this judge-shopping? Are the Republicans really that much smarter than us?

  • Austininc4

    Neon is a MORON. or a NeonMoron…

  • Anonymous

    Works for me! Religion and politics should never meet. Ever. Full stop. Period.

  • Anonymous

    There is no honor in misrepresenting who you are. Didn’t your parents teach you the difference between right and wrong?

  • Anonymous

    Which is very wrong. But they justify it because Democrats held up over 100 of Bush’s federal judge nominees until he left. So what are you gonna do?

  • Austininc4

    It means you are a two personality MORON. That’s the definition.

  • mhandrh

    It would be preferable to leave religion out of all government — we are not the Taliban, nor the Ayatollahs, nor do we desire Shariia law, nor do we want prayers at public events, nor do we want someone’s religion jammed down our throats because the jammers believe in a spirit in the sky.

    So yes, I would rather that government relied on atheists. People who don’t interject superstition and lore and mythology into our lives.

  • Anonymous

    A) reichpublikkkans are already trying to mandate guns and bibles.
    B) nice strawman.
    C) “many” really means small minority of blue dogs, and y’all went buh bye last election. Progressives are the majority of elected democrats now, get used to it…

  • Anonymous

    All of Neon’s posts seem to have gone poof!

  • Anonymous

    Oh my. The 1950′s. Just heard the “Bat Masterson” song sung in Spanglish.

  • Austininc4

    Or GUN RUNNERS like the NRA.

  • mhandrh

    Atheists are more honest – they don’t hide behind the bible or use it as a bludgeon.
    They don’t believe in heaven (or hell) but if there is one, then they would go to heaven because they used their “god” given brains to think!

  • Anonymous

    Works for me! Nothing’s as dangerous as a troll who thinks they know the law. If he’s been to law school I’ll eat my knitting.

  • Austininc4

    Yeah, real live Christians….NOT.

  • Anonymous

    You can contact a dental school where they will fix your teeth under the supervision of a qualified dentist. Free, I think. Don’t simply give up. Your teeth are very important.

  • Anonymous

    I’m sure his federal health care benefits will stay intact. Not to worry…

  • Anonymous

    If we want to British system, do the bad teeth go with it?

  • Austininc4

    Great, maybe he will do the same..

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    Character, old fellow.

  • Anonymous

    I can pay $100 to $130 for a dentist visit once a year, but I had the shit scared out of me today when the thought of my son having appendicitise was a possibility. I can’t afford insurance and as a contractor I don’t get the benefit of the company I work for pitching in to make it affordable. $9,000 to operate in the doctor’s office was the quote if we have to operate and not have insurance pay for it. Whatever happened to that claim that I could take my son to the emergency room and get free health care today???

  • Anonymous

    I think the best thing to do is for Democrats to start offering legislation to lower insurance costs INDEPENDENT of the health care law. Do it before the Republicans do.

  • Anonymous

    About as lazy as attacking a man’s character because his opinion didn’t go your way.

  • Austininc4

    It’s not free, and can cost as much as $1,000.00 dollars depending on the material needed.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    Heh. The repubs lowering the cost of anything?

    Heh, heh.

  • Austininc4

    I take that is more POX NEWS Facts, you’re spewing Short Bus.

  • Anonymous

    FRC is to God as a Teabagger judge is to objectivity. This was bought & paid for.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    We hope you’ll be as circumspect, when the Supremes rule for HCR.

  • Anonymous

    Only if they or thier rich friends can make a profit off of it.

  • Anonymous

    It depends on whose on the Court, doesn’t it?

  • Anonymous

    You think Democrats should lower insurance costs, but you don’t say how. You are full of shit.

  • Austininc4

    You’re no Democrat. You are half Wit Teabagging Troll.

  • Anonymous

    Wow. Walking the medical gauntlet.

    I thought the Canadian system was where you had to wait for services?

  • Austininc4

    He has no Character, neither do you.

  • Anonymous

    OK, this really does make a whole lot of sense, I like it.

    http://www.privacy-tools.au.tc

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    A good analysis, from the progressive perspective:

    http://www.acslaw.org/acsblog/node/18206

  • mhandrh

    Does he need surgery? Maybe it’s a false alarm.

    It’s bad enough to have to deal with no insurance, but when it affects your child, it’s unbearable.

  • Austininc4

    Republicans are Lobbyist for the Health Insurance Companies.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VICVAYZSIF5G2SUGRGIWIXZBJU Markus R

    Amicus brief copying is not that uncommon. In Dover decision regarding Intelligent Design in the class room the judge borrowed heavily from ACLU’s briefs, but did it because the judge found them to be correct. The judge here appears to have thought FRC brief was the correct one, and adopted it.

    Naturally the judge was wrong, but that’s a whole another thing.

  • Anonymous

    Why do you think the SCOTUS would be influenced by corporate interests? You cannot be basing it on its record. Bill Gates is still hurting after that monopoly lawsuit.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Heh. Now I have to wait probably another 1-2 weeks for the ins. company to authorize the PT the ortho prescribed…

    *sigh*

  • Anonymous

    Even if it’s repealed or declared unconstitutional, I consider it a stepping stone towards reform. Everyone’s on board with reforming health care.

  • labman57

    Judge Vinson to Family Research Council:
    “Tell me what to say, and I’ll say it. Tell me what to write, and I’ll write it. Tell me what to think, and I’ll think it.”

  • Austininc4

    If we had a system like England, Canada or France everyone would have Health Care. These Greedy Reichwingers are to busy Stealing Money to allow that to happen in this country.

  • Leftside_Annie

    No, no, no! Those 45,000 Americans should be happy – they’re all going to meet Jebus!!

    /snark

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    Check my link.

    Then we’ll talk.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Why not? We atheists are the only ones with our heads screwed on straight. You religious folks are just nuts.

  • Austininc4

    We are on board to vote as many Reichwingers out of Office as quick as possible, before they finish wrecking this Nation.

  • Anonymous

    No. I was saying there’s a typo in the article.2nd last paragraph, first sentence. Congress cannot defer to Congress.

  • Leftside_Annie

    Nuh-uh. *I* am the Queen of England. That is a wingnut. ;o)

  • Anonymous

    Is EVERYTHING you say false?

  • Anonymous

    This section reserved.

  • Anonymous

    Slow night? What a drag, queenie.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    It looks like shitqus vacuumed up some of my comments along with neon’s.

  • Anonymous

    Enlighten us.

  • Anonymous

    They did and you aren’t.

  • Austininc4

    The Reichwingers on the Supreme Court are Brought and Paid for by the Koch head Brothers. In other words Paid Hookers.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    Ya’ll must have a reel purty smile, cityboy! The important question, is can ya’ squeal? Like a pig?

  • Austininc4

    Yes, of course.

  • Anonymous

    and deliverance us from evil…

  • Anonymous

    We agree they’re both one way streets…our way or we’ll buy the other guys!

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    He smells good, too…

  • Anonymous

    How about talking about the ruling? How can inactivity be an activity? Health insurance needs work but this plan didnt help most folks .

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/ixscEZV9nIkyzW2F6Zz3uNY4qAAdcj8-#92739 heubler

    This decision does give the Bluedogs political cover, to back away from any compromise legislation that the Supremes might deem necessary.

  • Anonymous

    Ahhh. Acceptance is the first step.

  • Anonymous

    Understand either language?

  • Austininc4

    It helped more people than the Health Insurance Companies helped.

  • Anonymous

    Well, that and grammer.

  • Anonymous

    Hi all.
    O/T,
    I was over at fox nation for about an hour(yes it was difficult) It really is pathetic and sad how many ignorant bigots are out there.
    I wrote some comments disputing their ridiculous comments, not one wingnut responded to my fact based comments.
    I get the feeling they dont like debating someone with an opposing view who they know can bring facts to the debate.
    This one clown commented about MMFA with one word, NAZIS.
    Obviously the clown watches beck, thats all they have to offer when MMFA or TP proves them wrong and makes their lies public. This other fruitloop was going on and on about palin. I laughed my ass off when he/she wrote palin in 2012.
    I know you dont want to hear about the bozos over at fox nation, I apologize.
    I had to vent. Thankyou.

  • Anonymous

    Before the Republicans’ do? What, like in a thousand years?

  • Anonymous

    Not to mention mental health.

  • Anonymous

    perhaps we didn’t complain about his bias until AFTER he had demonstrated it because we’re not mind readers. we simply respond to the world around us rather than presume that our own fantasy worlds are actual.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve always wondered about Thomas and that robe.

  • Anonymous

    it’s hamburglar town over there…

    …all about the “rabble! rabble rabble rabble!!!”

  • Anonymous

    the funny thing is that the troll posits an either/or (either one must rely on the wisdom of religious hate groups OR one must rely on “atheists”) rather than consider the very reasonable possibility that a judge would rely on legal understanding and precedent in rendering a decision.

    their binary thought processes always give them away.

  • Anonymous

    thats yet to be seen – based on the number I and my company paid for insurance, it will be far cheaper for them to dump me (and family) on the exchange and pay the penalty. So here the question do I get to to keep my doctors?

  • Anonymous

    no, levi, you don’t understand; what the rest of us see as “lying”, the wingnuts simply see as making the best argument they can.

    if they couldn’t lie about shit, they would have no arguments at all behind their positions.

  • Anonymous

    the binary right-wing mind strikes again!

  • Anonymous

    boy, that neon is sounding more like a “Democrat” with each post, ain’t he?

  • Anonymous

    What will Kennedy do this time..flip a coin? Throw some chicken bones?

  • Anonymous

    so far…

  • Anonymous

    on the other hand, attacking a man’s character because tat man has demonstrated a marked tendency to misrepresent himself as a means of bolstering an otherwise weak position… that is hardly lazy. that, i would suggest, is integrity.

  • Anonymous

    of course he will, he’s a “democrat” doncha know.

  • Anonymous

    i guess you missed the part about how the judge cribbed whole sections of “legal opinion” offered by a hate group in his decision…

  • Anonymous

    defer to a smug blog commenter?

  • Anonymous

    Let me put it this way, if Orly Taitz and Jack Thompson can get a law license, then pretty much any yahoo who knows how to ace tests without learning can become a lawyer.

  • Anonymous

    Might as well. Poor guy’s confused.

  • Anonymous

    But mainly my concern is – How the heck can the goverment assist with or run H/C ? Look at all their programs like – USPS, Amtrak, Medicare, Social Security, DHS all cluster****s. Do you really believe the gov’t could run health care services better? You can bank at every major city intersection all day and night , get gas anytime most anywhere, but just try and renew your drivers licence. Government whether local , state, or fed is never as efficient as private enterprise and Never will be.

  • Anonymous

    really?

    ’cause i’m pretty sure uncle sam won the big one,

    and not amalgamated grommets, inc.

  • Anonymous

    medicare?

    VA?

    just prefer repeating that, because that’s what that one guy keeps saying?

  • Anonymous

    like you’re fit to make that call.

    snottiness is no substitute for competence, kid.

  • OutstandingInMyField

    Why do so many righties castigate government as being inefficient, yet firmly believe that our military is an excellent use of tax dollars?

  • Anonymous

    Yes they did- and really protecting our borders and interests is in my opinion (and a few others), the main reason for a federal government.

    but now security is being outsourced to ‘Blackwater’ style firms more and more.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah that darned social security program.

    The most successful government program in the history of governments.

    You are too transparent………

  • Anonymous

    dittoheads do the ditto better than xerox ever could.

  • http://twitter.com/PEDBZ paul dowling

    Obama boy loses again!

  • Anonymous

    how so,

    mr. racist?

  • Anonymous

    borders?

    you know wwii was fought mostly overseas,

    right?

  • pete

    I’m not sure that a binary system would allow for the constant roaring shrieks that they must hear in their heads. Nor would it facilitate the blood and explosions that haunt their dreams.

  • Anonymous

    thankfully yes -

  • Anonymous

    It was in all the papers.

  • Anonymous

    you righty guys don’t seem to know very much about how our legal system works.

    at all.

  • pete

    That’s why the only mention of religion in the Constitution is a warning against it having any role in our government. One could even go so far as to say the Constitution excludes religion from our government. It’s a pity that the poor Reichwhiners read that document so selectively, if at all.

  • Anonymous

    yes but the boomers are reaching retirement, the population is migration from more payer / less payees, to more payees, and less payer in the systems. Demographics rule on that system, broke into the red this year per the CBO huh, so see how that plays out,

  • Anonymous

    Link?

  • Anonymous

    I’m just going to call you a fucking liar.

    How do you like me so far?

  • Anonymous

    and how does that cost less?

    $100k/yr/soldier,

    vs. $30k/yr/soldier??

  • Anonymous

    demographics are a funny thing? Ever see what the young folks think of Rush and his ilk… How do you spell insignificant dinosaur….

  • Anonymous

    they’re not uncomfortable when utterly contradicting themselves.

  • Anonymous

    I’m sure you read them ? Despite all the lefty/right crap, I love the freedoms of this land. So I dont like government involvement in my personal freedoms, or like the idea of gov’t mandating I buy something or else be fined. As I noted post 1, H/C needs help but this past it and then read it, find out whats inside later, how can that be really defended.

  • Anonymous

    How does it make you feel inside when you just post stupid shit in an attempt to be antagonistic?

  • Anonymous

    what about business involvement in your personal freedoms?

  • Anonymous

    sounds likes you give up….

  • Anonymous

    After THAT, I’m as confused as you are.

  • Anonymous

    How do you feel about those that think government should tell you who you can or can not marry or what recreational drugs you can or can not take or whether or not you can decide to die with dignity or are you just another cheap prick whining about your dimes and nickels?

  • Anonymous

    I don’t like my premiums going up due to idiots who don’t want health insurance or people who can’t afford health insurance, who end up in the emergency room for a head cold or sniffles.

  • pete

    I love it when they claim that “nobody read” this or any bill. They fail to see that logically, if no one read it, that would include all of those so vehemently opposed to it. Heck! I still laugh when i remember Boner yelling; “no on read this so it must be stopped”. Sometimes it seems like the whole damn bunch couldn’t reason their way out of a wet paper sack with a machete and a case of grenades.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    old_greg sounds like he is all for gay marriage and gay rights…

  • Anonymous

    Volsky employs a fallacious ad hominem attack: it’s irrelvant to the technical, legal argument pertaining to severability that the Family Research Council was designated a hate group SPLC. The legal arguments either stand or fall on their own merits. If Family Research Council had given a brief on gay parenting as part of a case involving gay marriage, for example, then the SPLC designation could very well be relevant – but not here.

  • Anonymous

    You were caught in a lie honey.

    You already lost.

  • Anonymous

    Hmmm….I wonder which name PGlenn used to use?

  • Anonymous

    The troll thinks that by saying over and over again that these “government” programs are all messed up, it will be true. Or at least people will think it’s true.

    Amtrak isn’t even a government program — it’s just subsidized by the government. The government doesn’t tell Amtrak how to run their trains.

    The post office is an independent organization within the government and up until recently, has been self-sufficient and run well (due to the popularity of faxes and e-mail, snail mail has dropped off and they are having to find other ways to create revenue, but this is hardly their fault). But it has run well ever since Benjamin Franklin set it up, and they manage to compete well with private companies such as UPS and FedEx.

    Medicare and Social Security are two highly successful social programs. Medicare runs on a fraction of the overhead that private for-profit insurance companies do, and Social Security is a self-funded program that hasn’t contributed a dime to the deficit. It’s often touted as one of the most successful programs the government has ever had.

    And for what it’s worth, the DMV where I live is very efficient. The last time I renewed my license, it took very little time and I received excellent customer service. Of course, that’s a state program, not a federal one — so it may vary from state to state.

    He states that government isn’t as efficient as private enterprise without giving anything to back it up. But the truth is that the government often does things very well, and with less overhead than private enterprise. What private enterprise does the troll think should run the space program? Do the work of our military? Issue passports? Operate our federal prisons?

    No — it’s just more braying about the “inefficiency” of government without any backup.

  • Anonymous

    New to the site – never used another name here. So, is my point correct or incorrect?

  • Anonymous

    You just chanced upon it at 11:20something eastern and thought someone might give a shit?

  • Anonymous

    liar.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry I messed up your think progress party….

    You guys are fun. I really dont care who marries who, if you’re in love go for it.

    Welfare state goverment ultimately will not work, look at Europe and the UK, great vacation spots, but dont want to adopt their form of goverment.

    I may stop back by, only one of you as***** used profanity so far.

  • Anonymous

    Exactly. And how does Xe (Blackwater) compare costwise to our own military? Does it really run more efficiently? Is it really a more cost-effective way to go? I’d like to see some numbers showing us how much more bang for the buck they deliver (speaking figuratively, of course). It seems that whenever I do see numbers, they always show that hiring mercenaries like Xe is more expensive.

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Goss, the actuary, emphasized that even the $29 billion shortfall projected for this year was small, relative to the roughly $700 billion that would flow in and out of the system. The system, he added, has a balance of about $2.5 trillion that will take decades to deplete. Mr. Goss said that large cushion could start to grow again if the economy recovers briskly.

    Indeed, the Congressional Budget Office’s projection shows the ravages of the recession easing in the next few years, with small surpluses reappearing brieflly in 2014 and 2015.

    From YOUR link.

    Thank you. Open mouth, insert foot.

  • Anonymous

    happiness and high life expectancy are for suckers, right?

  • Anonymous

    Yes, just chanced upon it about ten minutes ago. If I’m pointing out a logical fallacy that was there four hours ago when this post apparently first aired, better late than never, right? If no one gives a shit about it, then that becomes a “teachable moment” for me.

  • Anonymous

    liar.

  • Anonymous

    but then again it might just be a piss poor attempt to play pretend. Insincerity and bullshit are signs of weakness and people that lie are weak and inferior…

  • Anonymous

    The HCR bill is hardly “Welfare state goverment”. If anything, it’s a huge boon to the insurance industry. And if you’re really leaving…don’t let the door hit you in the ass, ass.

  • Anonymous

    (they really really wish this rogue florida judge’s decision was going to amount to something)

  • Anonymous

    I look forward to goofing on you….

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RBQ6AX3V7E3Z2ZYPHUESTAS5TQ Harman

    Bush Daughter Barbara Endorses Gay Marriage http://bit.ly/eSSLBw

  • Anonymous

    Neither will an unregulated free market economy.

    That’s the point fuckface.

    See somolia.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    con artist.

  • Anonymous

    There is no question that this decision is “judicial activism”. But if/when this judge’s decision is overturned, only then will you hear the screaming reich wingers decrying judicial activism.

  • Anonymous

    Pretending what? Pretending that it’s a logical fallacy? I see no one’s disputed that.

    Lying about what? The people on this site are some strange cats.

  • Anonymous

    Aligator/Hippopotamus.
    Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

  • Anonymous

    OT:

    Think Progress writer Tonya Somanader is in an article on yahoo news:

    The Muslim Brotherhood: The Future of Egypt?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20110131/cm_atlantic/themuslimbrotherhoodthefutureofegypt6780

    Think Progress writer Tonya Somanader scoffs at the purported threat of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, calling it the Republican hardliners’ “delusion-du-jour.” She writes that Representative Thaddeus McCotter and UN Ambassador John Bolton are among many in the U.S. who believe “the result of this pro-democracy movement will be the enfranchisement of the Muslim Brotherhood and other anti-American ‘jihadist nutjobs.’”…’

    I wonder how long it will take our corporate led media to convince most the protests in Egypt are the Muslims fault. I am sure all the corporate heads are working together to get the most use of the problems in Egypt … will distort, lie to get the flow in their, the corp b@stards, favor.

  • Anonymous

    I never said unregulated…

    and cursing, really – you have no point, FRed

  • Leftside_Annie

    Heh. Once again, wingnut logic: quantity = quality.

  • Anonymous

    PGlenn wanna share with me how it is that you just chanced upon this place… Walk me through it. What link brought you here? Come on don’t be shy…

  • Anonymous

    You are already caught lying. You were here last night. Jack wagon.

  • Anonymous

    Bizarre, non sequitur accusation concerning someone I know absolutely zero about: hmmm . . . tombaker kills small pets.

    I point out a fallacious ad hominem attack and the response is more ad hominem attacks. Do you people ever address actual arguments?

  • Anonymous

    Would you know one if it kicked you in the ass?

  • Anonymous

    How can a person of zero integrity expect to be taken seriously. Why is it that these types of people are not embarassed by their own bullshit?

  • Anonymous

    Before you make an uninformed judgment on other countries based on what you’ve heard from empty right wing talking heads, perhaps you should find out what these countries charge in corporate taxes. I suspect most charge very low corporate taxes but the media never links this to economic problems, I wonder why that is?

  • Anonymous

    Oh, my goodness, and H-E-double-hockey sticks. You think when you just because you spell assholes “as*****” that you’re not cursing.

  • Anonymous

    Well after he cursed he repented and Mammon forgave him.

  • Leftside_Annie

    You’re obviously full of shit. Medicare is one of the most efficiently run programs in the country. So are Social Security and the post office. Every program in the universe can be improved somehow, but that does not mean that they aren’t valuable.

    Wingnut BS, with a side of stupid.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, yesterday was my first visit to this site. Thus, I’m new to the site.

    Or, maybe, I’m actually a grizzled veteran because no one can stand to maintain a “tenure” on this site for longer than 24 hours. Okay, I confess. Wow, dudes.

  • Anonymous

    I have no patience for bullshit. Just walk away as it is too late for you to attempt to recover. I am embarassed for you….

  • Anonymous

    This one might have to go full Opus Dei on himself.

  • Anonymous

    funny I expected ‘progressives’ would have been more accomodating, sorry I didnt integrate with your groups level of unity with each other in believing that more goverment agencies is the answer on healthcare.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve read about this, leading scientists call it conservatism. This common trait is triggered by undeveloped brains in certain people. These same type of people are also known to become violent, hateful, intolerant, bigoted, delusional and also suffer from selective memory syndrome and very low IQ’s.

  • Anonymous

    We don’t have much patience for intellectually stunted right wing mental midgets, but thanks for playing. NEXT!

  • Anonymous

    Well, so far I’m up 1-0. In this case, I was never going to lose because I simply pointed out a logical fallacy. But I’m tempted to venture an opinion-based argument because apparently I’ll win that one, too, 1-0 by forfeit. I say that Haagen Dazs ice cream is the best and y’all start calling me a liar, etc.

  • Anonymous

    been there done that – it sucks

    too bad you don’t have that “terrible, horrible, no-good” govt healthcare insurance called MEDICARE

  • Anonymous

    PGlenn 22 minutes ago in reply to dbadass

    Yes, just chanced upon it about ten minutes ago.
    ———————-
    PGlenn 1 minute ago in reply to InsidiousProphet

    Yes, yesterday was my first visit to this site.

    ——
    These types of people are pitiful fucked up misfits…

  • Anonymous

    actually asshole I just blew you pretend ass out of the water… Wanna explain to me why a grown man trades his integrity for being a cyber ass late at night?

  • Anonymous

    Oops….a troll lying! Shocker!

    BAH-HA-HA-HA!

    This one is neither very clever or bright.

  • Anonymous

    why did old_greg name change to “Guest”. Disqus is really f***** up (in deference to old_greg’s sensitivity to cursing)

  • Anonymous

    i hope you’re impressing yourself.

    otherwise you’re really wasting your time.

  • Anonymous

    OT: Here are two views on what’s happening in Egypt that make you go hmmmm…:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27383.htm

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27374.htm

  • Anonymous

    But I’m tempted to venture an opinion-based argument…
    Be very careful. If your tempted once, it may happen again. Next thing you know…you’re a progressive.

  • Anonymous

    Was old greggy banned or is he trying to change his identity and screwed up?

  • Anonymous

    PGlenn:
    So her is the thing. You need to select a new name and start all over again because you have already made a complete ass of yourself. I am sure your next incarnation will be equally idiotic and childlike but I will be happy to poke wholes in that stupid shit ass well. In the meantime please ask yourself just what the fuck is wrong with you and try to figure out what it is that makes you wanna act like an electronic tool….K?

  • Anonymous

    Well dbadass, first he will have to happen onto TP by chance again.

    BAH-HA-HA-HA!

  • Anonymous

    I liked the part about being up 1 – 0. Why would a grown man humiliate himself online in the middle of the night…. These people are completely fucked up and it is sort of sad… It is mind boggling….

  • Anonymous

    OK, true but I didnt direct it at you or anyone personally as F’nRed666 did. If you want to just swear at people, is a leftist blog really the place? maybe so.

    Now, as the NYT shows that two judges ruled for and 2 have ruled against this bill, we all have to wait for the SCOTUS to decide.

  • Anonymous

    PGlenn is a chump…

  • Anonymous

    declaring victory and flouncing off into the night is always so dispiriting to one’s opponents.

    i think it’s in “Art of War” somewhere.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/yEaYBB431esiJnCqKlPRmU4VW.FQZ_Pv#adb41 sandy h

    Heavy reliance on zany Tea Party arguments and now some direct quotes from the Family Research Council? This guy must have Karl Rove critique all his judicial rulings before handing them down, if his propaganda staff doesn’t write them outright.

    Isn’t there a law against plagiarism?

  • Anonymous

    All of this reminds me of an old Aggie joke we have here in Texas about a riot.
    Aggies were throwing fire-crackers at cops. Cops were picking ‘em up, lighting ‘em, and throwin’ ‘em back.

  • Anonymous

    Conveniently omitting that 14 judges have thrown out the challenges completely.

  • Anonymous

    maybe a better place to swear at people is on the floor of Congress in that classy Cheney sort of way….

  • Leftside_Annie

    Jebus. You idiots babbling about your “freedoms” really annoy the shit out of me.

    You pay taxes out of every single paycheck. You pay sales tax on nearly everything you buy. You get your driver’s license renewed and pay your fee. You pay your car registration every single year. Property tax. Car insurance. Interest on loans and credit cards.

    Mandates that force you to pay for things are EVERYWHERE.

    WTF is wrong with you? What is so hard to figure out that you and I and every other American are already fucking paying for health care for every uninsured American who has to go to the goddamned emergency room for basic healthcare??

    And what about MY personal freedom to have an abortion if I want one? Huh? If I were gay, what about my personal freedom to marry the person I love?? What about those “personal freedoms” dumkopf??

    Oh, those personal freedoms are different, aren’t they? Shit.

    Jesus H. Christ on a cracker!! You dumb wingnuts make me TIRED.

  • Anonymous

    Would you expect anything different? People like this are not sincere

  • Anonymous

    or a gun show.

  • pete

    The protests of “keeping the guvmint out of our lives” ring pretty hollow when the GOoPers pull stuff like this.

    http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/house-republican-priorities-jobs-nope

  • Leftside_Annie

    Just because we’re progressive does NOT mean that we have to be tolerant of rank stupidity.

    Jesus H. Christ.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/yEaYBB431esiJnCqKlPRmU4VW.FQZ_Pv#adb41 sandy h

    As Chief Justice John Roberts noted in Free Enterprise Fund et al. v. Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, “Because ‘[t]he unconstitutionality of a part of an Act does not necessarily defeat or affect the validity of its remaining provisions,’ Champlin Refining Co. v. Corporation Comm’n of Okla. , 286 U. S. 210, 234 (1932) , the ‘normal rule’ is ‘that partial, rather than facial, invalidation is the required course.’”…..

    Roberts doesn’t have the same knowledge or half the respect for the Constitution as the Family Research Council?

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/yEaYBB431esiJnCqKlPRmU4VW.FQZ_Pv#adb41 sandy h

    They like to pay some taxes, actually a lot of taxes? Just don’t want to pay any that a black man in the White House signed into law?

  • NotesFromME

    The interesting thing is WHY do religious fundamentalists have any opinion on the subject. What did Jesus ever say about health insurance or the US Constitution?

  • Anonymous

    I sort of miss PGlenn already. I have a soft spot for simpletons…

  • Anonymous

    Ah – now we’re getting somewhere…
    Taxes on everything, I agree. But there has to be a defined limit.
    The constitution can be changed, but as it is – it doesnt allow for this bill (IMHO)
    Yes we do pay for everyone, today – but make it more competitive, – price controlls by Kathleen aint going work.

    And as you brought it up, a woman body is her own, and she alone should be able to make any decision about it she likes. ( dont assume you know me)

  • Anonymous

    So this legal flyweight teabagger is also a plagiarist>? Surprised I am not.

  • katy


    “One of your inalienable rights is the right to travel, the right to move about without needing your papers,” Franklin told WSB in Atlanta. “You shouldn’t have to have permission from the state to exercise a right that has been inalienably given to you from your creator.”

    unlrss you are a brown person.

  • NotesFromME

    Considering the nut job wingnuts Bush nominated, it is no wonder. After all, Bush put the torture memo war criminal on the Federal bench.

  • SKdeA

    Yeah, but it’s pretty hard to rob a bank for any significant amount of cash when it’s all in gold and silver, that shit is heavy.

  • Anonymous

    “Welfare Clause.” Check the history.

  • Anonymous

    a better example was Biden’s comment at the H/C bill signing wouldnt you say?

  • NotesFromME

    If you take him to the emergency room they have to treat him, but they will send you the bill. Obviously, if you have no money, you can’t pay it, so it goes out for collection. No assets, nothing to attach. Thus, free health care.

    Only in America.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, the old, “make it more competitive” act. Like setting up cross state exchanges? And leaving pricing aside, how would you assure that no one is denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions? Or that people don’t get dumped when they make a claim? Or when they inadvertently short pay their premium by 2 cents? Do you really believe any for profit company will stop looking out for their bottom line?

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/yEaYBB431esiJnCqKlPRmU4VW.FQZ_Pv#adb41 sandy h

    Only the evangelicals and President Obama actually have a problem with gay marriage. I bet most of Palin’s kids don’t care either.

    And if Pat Robertson can come out for legalizing pot, I suppose Obama could be the only one left in America soon who has reservations. The Teabaggers would rather have gays marry and be miserable like the rest of us locked in holy matrimony than live the gay and free life.

    And the evangelicals maybe actually embracing bi-sexuality according to the Rev.Ted Haggard. That’s further than most progressives will go.

  • SKdeA

    Or possibly he is too dumb to navigate the difficult systems of say, buying a stamp or renewing your drivers’ license. Either he’s a dope (and to be pitied) or a liar. Yawn.

  • SKdeA

    Besides, war and death and destruction make them feel all manly.

  • Anonymous

    Biden wasn’t telling anyone to fuck off. So no, I wouldn’t say that’s a better example.

  • Anonymous

    mobile goalposts make it all a breeze!

  • NotesFromME

    When a judge parrots teabagger talking points in a legal decision that ignores legal precedent, the guy is a teabagger.

  • Anonymous

    We have three of them in the Supreme Court.

  • Anonymous

    Okay, WTF happened today? Did the trolls grow spores and spawn a few clones?

  • Anonymous

    Medicare – great – like the doctors that run tests for no reason, pretending to be helping the elderly but just run up the billing. Happens all the time, we found that our parents had cataracts so bad, when we moved them to our doctors, they only had seen cases that bad in 3rd world countries. As they didnt know better, they just went along with the doctor for years, maybe they were naive, but the doctors were not. No system is perfect and the more you deal with the elderly the more you see the failings.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/yEaYBB431esiJnCqKlPRmU4VW.FQZ_Pv#adb41 sandy h

    He preferred the Articles of Confederation and emergency room health care. It’s all there in the Old Testament.

  • Anonymous

    Universal Health Care Is Pro-Business!

    You’d think that the anti-US Chamber Of Commerce and the republicorps would be pushing hard for universal health care.

  • Anonymous

    OT:
    “Newly elected Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus took the job with $23 million in debt and cut a third of the staff he inherited from his predecessor” How long until they blame it on Obama?

  • Anonymous

    IP,
    It’s a Progressive/Liberal stand and so naturally, the Party of Greed is against it.

  • Anonymous

    Excellent rant Leftside Annie! I wish a democrat would say that on the floor of the House or Senate.

  • Anonymous

    FAXNation must be closed for the night.

  • Anonymous

    The individual mandate was a Republican idea in the first place. Why can’t they even support their own policies and positions?

  • Anonymous

    wow we’d better keep an eye on those wall street types and those oil industry execs…. No doubt they must be ripping off the elderly and god knows who else all in the name of greed….

  • Anonymous

    As a general rule a think one should model that which one preaches… Party of fiscal responsibility… Yeah right. It is actually sort of funny that they are in debt….

  • Anonymous

    Exactly

  • Anonymous

    O.T. but deal with it…

    For all the brave people in Egypt:

    Walk Like An Egyptian, The revolution has just begun – Egyptian Revolution Video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNmsB5JXXnY

    .

  • Anonymous

    wasn’t some florida politician nearly convicted of major fraud, and thown off the board of the for-profit “healthcare” corporation he headed?

    didn’t that company bilk megamillions out of private insurance companies?

  • Anonymous

    Those girl on girl night clubs must be downright expensive places to try to pick up guys.

  • Anonymous

    That would be the newly elected Governor, who appears to be doing his best J. LaPetmane impression.

  • Anonymous

    y – that’s the one – the real creepy lookin’ dude that ripped all the grandmas and grandpas off.

  • Anonymous

    did the teeballers learn absolutely nothing from the collapse of Enron, and the disgrace of Arthur Anderson?

  • Anonymous

    didn’t fox report that the financial meltdown was found to be “avoidable”,

    and that it was caused merely by the insatiable greed of a few private business insiders looking to make impossible returns?

  • Anonymous

    I think he became governor, or was Rick Scott a criminal before he became governor of Florida?

  • Anonymous

    Yes.

  • Anonymous

    That reminds me of the story about the far right wing terrorist. He was going to blow up a bus full of liberals and he burnt his lips on the tailpipe.

  • Anonymous

    They lie! The financial meltdown was caused by Obama and the democrats.

    *snark*

  • Anonymous

    “Tea Party Judge Roger Vinson ‘Borrows Heavily’ From Family Research Council To Invalidate Health Law”

    Our judicial system has been hijacked by the wingnuts and teabaggers. Thanks for the SCOTUS rulling on Citizen United case, the big corporations and lobbyists have officially hijacked the justice system. This is chipping away from our democracy in this country. The Founding Fathers are certainly rolling over on their graves.

    OT

    You won’t believe this. The gnome Senator of Kentucky landed his little butt on the Education committee, the federal agency that he wants to get rid of.

    Sen. Rand Paul to Sit on Education Committee

    Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., aka Mr. Let’s-Ditch-the-Department-of-Education, got a seat on the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee.

    http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-
    12/2011/01/sen_rand_paul_to_sit_on_educat.html

    A serious joke I should add. To allow Senator Dippity Doo to sit on the Education committee is like having Bernie Maddoff head the SEC and having the five banksters, Dimon, Blankfein, Moynihan, Stumpf, and Pandit to head the Consumer Protection Agency.

  • Anonymous

    I lived in London twelve years and they don’t care as much as Americans how straight their teeth are. Root canal there cost me nothing out of pocket. Would cost me $1500 in USA because all the money I paid here did not get me dental. Appendectomy there: they paid ME $200! Three other emergency room visits: $0.00. Eye exam: $0.00.

  • Anonymous

    Arizona cut mental health care in half. How’s that working out?

  • Anonymous

    The bill they send you is astronomical. Like $50 aspirin.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe someday, WE’LL walk like Egyptians, too!

  • Anonymous

    In CA, you can renew your driver’s license online in a minute. For visiting one, they were more staff under Gray Davis than Arhnuld.

  • Anonymous

    O.T. for some light humor…

    Jim Morin: Sarah Palin and the moose
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbx6M_maW2k

    .

  • Anonymous

    Perhaps Vinson is expecting big things should a Huckabee administration come to pass? At least he’ll get an invite to the next Koch brothers gala.

  • http://twitter.com/Designergianna gianna

    When a Judge is paid enough money he will twist the law to give the payee what he wants. The Judge knows this decision is nothing but a performance for the Koch Bros. to have enough time to buy more Law Makers and supporters.

  • Anonymous

    The old “make it more competitive” by “allowing business across state lines” meme won’t do a thing to improve health care or make it more affordable. Allowing health insurers to do business across state lines will merely do a couple of things — both benefiting the greedheads instead of the people:

    1) A health insurer will set up shop in the state with the least regulation and then thumb their nose at the regulations of all other states. This pretty much guarantees a health insurer can do business any way they want to no matter what state regulations are in place.

    2) There might be more competition for a few nanoseconds, but then expect the larger companies to merge into a couple, maybe three, super large entities and force all the small insurers into the Borg or out of business. Then with only a couple of monsters on the field, where would all the “competition” be? All that’s accomplished is the creation of larger monsters.

    Neither of these things will make health care more affordable, take care of people with pre-existing conditions, or prevent an insurer from rescinding coverage whenever they feel like it. But it would allow the insurers to make more money, which is why Republicans love the idea.

  • Anonymous

    Surprisingly, I have heard barely a peep from those that are benefitting from the new law. Like parents of children with pre-existing conditions, the elders with the donut hole, families with kids in the 20′s staying on parents insurance. You think they’d be leading a Million March, like in Egypt.

  • Austininc4

    You will, soon enough.

  • http://tpzoo.wordpress.com JaneElizabethTheresaSechny

    I think that’s in part due to the fact that the Rs and their ilk have out-shouted anyone who has tried to rationally explain the benefits of the ACA. It also doesn’t help that a lot of the important benefits were not scheduled to take effect immediately.

  • Anonymous

    Perhaps he already has received death threats from tea partiers.

  • http://twitter.com/davemarney Dave Marney

    Someone needs to tell the SPLC that their “Hate Map” is USING GUN SIGHT TARGETS to mark so-called hate activity. That is absolutely hilarious. I’ve always said that political correctness will die when it becomes politically incorrect to be politically correct. The SPLC has officially jumped the shark.

  • Anonymous

    In a nutshell: Health ins companies want to pay dr’s as little as possible and charge customers as much as possible while providing the minimum health care possible. This adversarial relationship hurts everyone but health co execs and the Republicans who support them. When the Republicans scream death panels, socialism or try to scare you with horror stories of malfeasance in government run health care systems, they are only protecting the Health Care Execs excessive profits, Hermes handbags, and overpriced sports cars.

    It has nothing to do anything else. Vinton is a tool. Nothing more.

    “There, could I have put it more plainly and fairly?”

  • http://pickwaynesbrain.wordpress.com Wayne A. Schneider

    Not really. What you are taking to be a “sniper scope” on the SPLC Hate Map is a symbol used to indicate a White Supremacist group. They use different symbols on their map top indicate different types of hate groups.

    According to eh Anti-Defamation League’s website (http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/racist_celtic_cross.asp), what you are perceiving to be a “sniper scope” is a symbol called a “Celtic Cross” (among other names) which is used by White Supremacist groups to identify themselves.

    In no way, shape or form should this be construed as “targeting” anyone the way Sarah Palin’s PAC used sniper scopes to “target” political opponents.

    So, no, the SPLC has not “jumped the shark” (an expression that wouldn’t have applied anyway.)

  • http://twitter.com/xicano2nd2 xicano2nd

    Since the Individual Mandate is a republican brain-child, does that mean they intended to sabotage their own legislation if they would have won out when they first proposed it!

    Doesn’t that demonstrate they always talk with forked tongues?

  • http://twitter.com/xicano2nd2 xicano2nd

    Keep trying. Maybe use what comes naturally, like making up shit!

  • mhandrh

    That’s not entirely true.
    They will treat him in the ER but the bill you get canbankrupt you. If you are working but can’t afford insurance, that means you have some income and probably some assets — all of them can be lost. It’s not “free” health care.
    Most bankruptcies in the USA are due to medical bills not covered by insurance that take away all assets, all savings, leaving a person with nothing.

  • Anonymous

    The obvious alternative is the government providing a public option so that no one is “compelled” to buy health insurance.

  • Anonymous

    LOL, Tea partes are for little girls with invisible friends.

    http://www.privacy-tools.au.tc

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/yEaYBB431esiJnCqKlPRmU4VW.FQZ_Pv#adb41 sandy h

    If a black man in the White House adopts conservative policies, suddenly they become unconstitutional? Republicans are useless, needless additions to any equation.

    We’re still waiting for details of their balanced budget. Eliminating Social Security and Medicare is off the table in the Senate. So Boehner needs to come up with a solution for the short term like raising the debt ceiling which Ryan now says they won’t do.

    It’s time to start calling that action what it really is: The Second Great Depression Roulette.

  • Anonymous

    Once a Democrat supports it, it becomes a liberal idea…Remember, these knee-jerk reactionaries labeled Chuck Hagel liberal when he spoke out against the war in Iraq…a guy with a 80%+ rating from the ACU…

  • Anonymous

    Clarence may not be there –He has to fix the tax avoidance issue from 1997 to present!

    Read the ‘Summary Judgement’ there was no footnote for FRC..

    Many of the big protection issue bills were struck down in the lower courts and had a favorable opinion out of the Scotus—but those courts were for the American People not corporations! as is the roberts activist court!

  • Anonymous

    Absolutely, so true.

    As usual, the American public is clueless. We’ve had managed care for 40 years at the complete detriment to the consumer. Anybody that doesn’t think we already have rationed healthcare is a moron. (See Palin).

    Nixon unleashed managed care on this country – another stellar example of a lack of critical thinking and reasoning driven by our idiot lawyer legislators. He took a deliberate approach to health care reform encompassing a change from a not-for-profit business model into a for-profit model originally driven by the commercial insurance companies that didn’t know a damned thing about healthcare. In 1972 or 1973 Congress passed the HMO Act, which opened up the flood gate for the mess we find ourselves in today.

    I remember HMOs then – wow, were they horrid.

    As usual, its unbelievable unintended consequences from the Repugs’ inciteful policy making – privatize everything for profit, screw the consumer.

  • Anonymous

    I’m all for universal health care.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YDJZKAVJOUU7QAMMJXDUBRC2D4 Bones

    Vinson obviously is has a problem with people… living or at least not dying a slow death. Then again its all for the power and glory of Jebus. As it is written, ” For God so loved the rich that he gave his only son, so that he may continously rape the lower 99% and set those queero-sexuals on fire and send them to hell.”(John 3:16) Thus speaketh the Lord.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YDJZKAVJOUU7QAMMJXDUBRC2D4 Bones

    Well Sandy, Repubs were useful once, I mean they did free the slaves and… well, is that it? Sad, truly sad that is the only positive thing they have ever accomplished.

  • Ritorna Vincitor

    It would be so nice not to see him there. He hasn’t really been there for quite some time, except for his vote, unfortunately.

  • Anonymous

    I understand the point – but frankly I doubt it. These folks have at least as much reason to shout, pout and organize as overfed, retirement-age ‘Baggers. Those folks were out front being serfs for Koch and Armey, despite the fact that the ACA would have only made things better for them and their families. And the benefits I noted were the ones that already took effect.

    I am getting demoralized about the USA.

  • Anonymous

    I understand the point – but frankly I doubt it. These folks have at least as much reason to shout, pout and organize as overfed, retirement-age ‘Baggers. Those folks were out front being serfs for Koch and Armey, despite the fact that the ACA would have only made things better for them and their families. And the benefits I noted were the ones that already took effect.

    I am getting demoralized about the USA.

  • Anonymous

    Into the gas chamber with Vinson, Roberts, et al. It’s time….

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000555537619 Rock Roswell

    Ad Hom is not fallacious when an “expert” opinion is being evaluated. This is a well known exception built into the fallacy. The FRC also has involved itself in medical and insurance matters, and its output is subject to evaluation. Its output has been positively detected in sloppy plagiarism in the judge’s decision and is valid material for criticism based on its known reputation for falsehood.

    Ad Hominem was never made to prevent evaluation of claims based on the reputation of the claimant. You’ve found no fallacy.

  • Anonymous

    don’t assume you know me

    Don’t assume that it matters. We’re not concerned about you, or what you think should and shouldn’t be legal. Under existing law, a woman’s body isn’t her own, so let’s not pretend otherwise. The issue here is what’s already legal — compulsory fees exist all over the place, so this argument about being “forced” to purchase health insurance is a crock. You get fined if you don’t buy it, just the way you get fined if you don’t pay your taxes, or if you refuse to buy automobile insurance. Hell, we pay a surcharge every time we buy a fucking loaf of bread, and there’s nothing unconstitutional about any of it.

  • Anonymous

    That’s why I stated up front that it was a *fallacious* example of ad
    hominem, because not all ad hominem attacks are fallacious. You’re right
    that evidence from an expert in a courtroom might be undermined by the
    reputation of that witness, but only if the reputational matters are
    relevant. The FRC was making a technical legal argument that 1). has no
    connection to the author’s concerns about the FRC being designated a “hate
    group” by SCPC (speaking of a group that does sloppy work, btw); 2). does
    not require any integrity on the part of the expert.

    A technical legal argument speaks for itself. With certain types of
    arguments, it is completely irrelevant who makes them.

  • Anonymous

    Hey, I’ve got an even better idea — let’s get rid of laws altogether. Fuck it, I’m tired of Big Brother telling me what to do. I wants my freedom, dammit! I say, just let everyone do whatever the hell they want. Want to let your five-year-old drive your Hummer? Go right on ahead. Don’t want to pay taxes? Fuck ‘em. Want to shoot up a town hall meeting? Hey, it’s called the right to bear arms, baby, and we’re just watering the old liberty tree. Sure, things might be a little chaotic at first, but ultimately the strongest and most deserving of us will make out fine, and the weak and spineless will die. But the important thing is, we’ll all be FREE!

    YEA FREEDOM!!! WOO-HOO!!!!!

  • Anonymous

    That’s why I stated up front that it was a fallacious example of ad hominem, because not all ad hominem attacks are fallacious.

    You’re right that evidence from an expert in a courtroom might be undermined by the reputation of that witness, but only if the reputational matters are relevant. The FRC was making a technical legal argument that 1). has no connection to the author’s concerns about the FRC being designated a “hate group” by SLPC (speaking of a group that does sloppy work, btw); 2). does not require any integrity on the part of the expert. For example, if I provide an “expert” opinion on whether the President or Congress should have legal authority to do something, what difference would it make if I was known to be prejudiced against Russians?

    A technical legal argument speaks for itself. With certain types of arguments, it is completely irrelevant who makes them.

  • http://twitter.com/PEDBZ paul dowling

    HA! I love it! Libs lost again!

    Omama care is fuckin DEAD!!!!!!

  • Anonymous

    Since when did God give me the right to drive a car?

    It’s in the Bible, you silly girl.

    “The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms. He will drive out your enemy before you…” Deuteronomy 33:27.

    Clearly, they’re talking about SUVs here.

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