As ThinkProgress has noted, there are currently two competing visions of governance in the United States. One, the conservative vision, believes in the on-your-own society, and informs a policy agenda that primarily serves the well off and privileged sectors of the country. The other vision, the progressive one, believes in an American Dream that works for all people, regardless of their racial, religious, or economic background.
The conservative vision was on full display last week in Obion County, Tennessee. In this rural section of Tennessee, Gene Cranick’s home caught on fire. As the Cranicks fled their home, their neighbors alerted the county’s firefighters, who soon arrived at the scene. Yet when the firefighters arrived, they refused to put out the fire, saying that the family failed to pay the annual subscription fee to the fire department. Because the county’s fire services for rural residences is based on household subscription fees, the firefighters, fully equipped to help the Cranicks, stood by and watched as the home burned to the ground:
Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won’t respond, then watches it burn. That’s exactly what happened to a local family tonight. A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.
The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn’t do anything to stop his house from burning. Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay. The mayor said if homeowners don’t pay, they’re out of luck. [...]
We asked the mayor of South Fulton if the chief could have made an exception. “Anybody that’s not in the city of South Fulton, it’s a service we offer, either they accept it or they don’t,” Mayor David Crocker said.
Watch local news station Local 6’s report on the fire:
The fire reportedly continued for hours “because garden hoses just wouldn’t put it out. It wasn’t until that fire spread to a neighbor’s property, that anyone would respond” — only because the neighbor had paid the fee.
A local newspaper further pressed Mayor Crocker about the city’s policy, which has been in place since 1990. Crocker, a Republican who was elected in 2008 and serves with a county commission where every seat is also filled by a Republican, likened the policy to buying auto insurance. The paper said he told them that, after all, “if an auto owner allowed their vehicle insurance to lapse, they would not expect an insurance company to pay for an unprotected vehicle after it was wrecked.”
Ironically, in the county commission’s latest report on its fire services, which outlines which parts of the municipal area will receive fire services only through subscriptions, the commissioners and fire service officials brag that the county is “very progressive.”
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Crocker, the firefighters, and anyone else who thinks this is the appropriate way to do “business” – which is how they treat it– are breathtakingly heartless. And if someone had been trapped in the house?
October 4th, 2010 at 9:57 amIsn’t the middle class burning down as the Republicans stand and watch offering zero help in putting the fire out?
October 4th, 2010 at 9:57 amdasm says:
Crocker, the firefighters, and anyone else who thinks this is the appropriate way to do “business” – which is how they treat it– are breathtakingly heartless. And if someone had been trapped in the house?
Republiscum: “They die. So?”
October 4th, 2010 at 9:58 amAwesome! Let’s do the same with police, EMT, and ambulance services!
/snark
October 4th, 2010 at 9:59 amBetcha half a million that if it had been a non-subscriber millionaire’s mansion that had caught fire, and the owner offered to pay whatever it took, the Chief would have acted.
October 4th, 2010 at 9:59 amIt’s too bad teabaggers aren’t bright enough to see this is the type of thing they are screaming for– more fees imposed by corrupt locals, or no service whatsoever.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:00 amCrocker, a Republican who was elected in 2008 and serves with a county commission where every seat is also filled by a Republican, likened the policy to buying auto insurance.
or just a money scam.
seeing all are teapublicants and i am betting they all are in the upper scale of the county.
can you say protection scam.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:01 amPilotshark says:
People in Brooklyn get prosecuted for protection scams. Oh, wait, I forgot. Brooklyn is not part of Screeching Sarah’s “real” America.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:03 amIs this the next phase of America under the Tea Party? Now poor people will not get service from the fire department.
What a sick demonstration of ideology defeating humanity.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:03 amthis is one of the sickest things i’ve ever heard of…
the scorn those “fire fighters” (REAL quotes) deserve should be severe.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:04 amRepubliscum: “That’s a nice house you have there. Be a shame if something…happened to it.”
October 4th, 2010 at 10:04 amOne wonders which commissioner has his eye on that land.
pay us now or pay us later but you will pay us.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:07 amWormtroll says:
Does it matter? Maybe his kid needed braces and he couldn’t afford $75 since he’s paying the orthodontist $250 a month for the rest of his life.
Don’t you think a better model would be to put out the fire then bill him for the service? One could calculate the value in terms of firefighter time (although they were probably volunteers), diesel to power the engines, and water from the hydrant utilized.
But no. It’s more fun to hold him up as an example in order to blackmail all the other non-city residents into paying.
I think the owner should research whether or not the FD gets any tax dollars from the surrounding county; if so I small a lawsuit.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:08 amPrivatization of community services.
I live near an exclusive, high-income suburb which refuses to join local government and pay the concomitant taxes.
They have no library. They have no fire department. They have no police department (relying on the county).
At least once a year, a mansion burns down because there is no local fire department available.
This is Rand Paul’s world.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:08 amThat should have been “smell a lawsuit…”
October 4th, 2010 at 10:09 amWhere is the humanity in all this? I guess common decency is not common anymore.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:12 am“Compassionate conservatism”®
Brought to you by Republicans.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:12 amThis is the Rand Paul worldview at play. They wonder why they should pay to help you put your fire.
Same with health care. Why should pay to help you put out the fire inside your body? It’s not their fault you got cancer and it’s going to bankrupt your family.
This is one saddest stories I’ve read in sometime. Our conservative countrymen just are the most selfish self-serving bunch on the planet. I pity you.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:12 amWormtroll says:
Are we sure the jurisdictions act the same; have the same subscription policies in place; the mansion owner offered to pay? No? Apples and Oranges, Troll.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:12 amI see our stupid troll has a new nick but the same old stumbling gait he calls “moves”.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:13 amThis is what the future world of GOP privatization will look like. In an effort to keep taxes down, governments will say, hey, this isn’t a tax, it’s a voluntary fee. But folks who are strapped for cash won’t pay, or will forget to pay, or will lose the bill. And what happens to apartment dwellers whose landlords may not have paid the fee? Tough luck, I guess. For whatever reason, you will see more and more heartless behavior on the part of people I once thought were supposed to protect and serve. Good thing no human beings were caught in the house when it burned, or this fire department and municipal government would have been sued for all they are worth.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:15 amNot only that, but the troll’s quote that he pulled from Marie says quite clearly “no fire department is available”.
That’s not apples and oranges, that’s apples and an empty orange crate.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:15 amAs a firefighter, I find this appalling and un-American.
This is symbolic of Bush’s ‘ownership society’.
We risk our lives to save farm animals, let alone humans, and we are volunteers. We’re not paid a salary, get calls at 3:00 a.m. when its -20F with 30mph winds and risk our lives to save others and their property.
This Fire Chief, County officials and the Mayor should have consequences that match what happened in Bell, CA.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:16 amIn some states it is illegal to fail to assist when witnessing a crime… called a bad Samaritan law.
This is analogous. It is also an excellent example of what happens when conservatives have their way with the world, and it’s ugly.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:16 am@24
VD RfS
LOL at you!!!
ignorance is bliss then you have to be be on cloud 9.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:16 amSo if the $75/year fee were called a tax, it would be bad, but calling it a fee makes it a good thing because it is for profit?
October 4th, 2010 at 10:16 amWould the fire fighters have gone in to help anyone who may have been trapped inside the home?
I am honestly horrified by this. Shame on all those fire fighters who stood there and did nothing, and shame on the idiots that think this is way things should work. Your are inhuman.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:16 amThe people I am acquainted with who live in that ritzy suburb with no fire, police and library services are conservative Republicans — many attend the local fundamentalist mega-church – and are socially, fiscally and culturally conservative.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:17 amBut everything to them is money — their taxes, their homes, their cars.
The Worm @18 obviously is logic-deprived and unable to see any differences in those circumstances.
Cranicks = foolish people for not paying the subscription, perhaps
Obion County, Tennessee = a bunch of foolish people for operating public safety by subscription
The neighbor’s home would not have caught fire if there had been no fire at Cranicks or if the fire department had put it out immediately to protect the neighbor. What a legal mess that might be pending.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:17 amAlso now will the home owners home insurance pay since he had the opportunity to protect his hoem but didn’t?
October 4th, 2010 at 10:17 amWormwood says:
Guess you ignored my earlier response. Fires spread. If you allow them to burn unhindered, you unnecesarily place the rest of the community at risk. Put out the fire, then bill the non-subscriber for the full cost of services. That would be the correct insurance model approach. Not by risking everyone else’s house due to wind-borne embers.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:17 amVile and sad. Welcome to the Rand Paul world where taxes are bad and house fires are a good lesson in responsibility.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:18 amralph,
October 4th, 2010 at 10:19 amThanks for replying to that troll who co-opted my comment to make his own point – which was just the opposite of mine.
We asked the mayor of South Fulton if the chief could have made an exception. “Anybody that’s not in the city of South Fulton, it’s a service we offer, either they accept it or they don’t,” Mayor David Crocker said.
This is what the right wingers mean by “freedom.”
If they can’t afford it? Too bad.
Republican platform: YOYO (You’re On Your Own).
October 4th, 2010 at 10:20 amA salient point here is that if my house catches fire, and I haven’t paid my taxes, the FD will still come and put the fire out. This incident is the obvious and natural consequence of instituting the conservative policies of “shrinking government.”
This is a glimpse of the future of right-wing America.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:20 amRand Paul is also trying to start a fire that other people will have to pay dearly to put out.
Welcome to Tennessee!
October 4th, 2010 at 10:21 amPlease set your clocks back 40 years.
Peter C says:
Vile and sad. Welcome to the Rand Paul world where taxes are bad and house fires are a good lesson in responsibility.
and why you should pay your FEEs!!(taxes)
October 4th, 2010 at 10:21 amWormtroll says:
Hey, troll, I spent 16 years putting out fires and rescuing people for free. I enjoyed doing it. I made my community and the world a better place. You?? Nahhh. Too busy being a plick.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:21 amZimzone says:
As a firefighter, I find this appalling and un-American.
It’s been my experience that firefighters choose their work because they really wnat to serve their fellow man. I would think the disgust of every brave volunteer in the country would be heaped upon those sorry examples of humanity.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:22 am#43. I hope you meant “too busy being a prick!”
October 4th, 2010 at 10:23 amCompassion and Charity are vices to the right.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:24 amGreed is a virtue.
Severus says:
Of course. This is how insurance works. They take your money on the assumption that they will not have to pay back. In the event of an incident, they will find any excuse necessary to avoid paying.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:25 amstewarjt says:
Of clourse.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:26 amcitizens have to subscribe to the Fire Dept?? this is a joke, right?? man… these right-wingers and their crackpot ideas.. every time you think you’ve heard everything some new crazy idea surfaces.. simply astonishing.. we make jokes all the time like, you don’t want any govt? build yr own roads, build yr own schools, put down your own fires.. it’s like a twisted joke that demonstrates to what extreme right-wingers take their anti-govt ideology has come to pass.. unbelievable.. I hope this is all over the news tonight — everywhere (and in the cable shows too – but those are watched by very few people..)
October 4th, 2010 at 10:27 amIn the spirit of helping the drooling imbeciles in the gNOpig and teabaggers, I am willing to donate ONE paper napkin for Wormfood.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:27 amDeserves to be repeated.
To the list of vices for the right we can add:
Social Justice
Diversity
Personal Responsibility (actual, not rhetorical)
I think they may have bitten off more than they can chew by endeavoring to turn so many virtues into dirty words.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:27 am@32 — That is exactly what I was thinking.
Victim: “MY BABY IS STILL INSIDE!”
Profit Fire Chief: “Sorry ma’am, but you neglected to previously pay the $1.28 surcharge and $14.17 on a back due subscription fee.”
This is also very very illegal in some states. It falls under the same clauses that make it so you cannot take out an insurance policy on property you do not own; because it would provide motive to destroy that property. This is the same (Has been shot down by the Courts of some states — NY being one) in that it provides motive to start fires in order to scare people into subscribing. Same with Cops (also motive to burglarize), etc etc.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:27 amThis is the right-wing vision for America. Everything will be like this is the right-wing gets their way.
Doctors.
Paramedics.
Police.
Fire.
Trash.
Any public service.
If you the idea of your house burning down while the firefighters watch to make sure it doesn’t affect anyone else’s house, then vote R.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:27 amIf everyone pays for their fire protection within the structure of their property taxes — which is the way it should be done, since fire protection is part of the commons — then it’s usually less than $75 per year (depending on where you live).
When I lived in Louisiana, the ambulance service was by subscription. Weird, but we could get our neighbor to take us to the hospital — we can’t ask our neighbor to put out a burning house. It’s too dangerous.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:28 am“You cannot live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you.” —-John Wooden
Where Republicans tread, innocent people end up dead.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:28 amHmmm…
So, I see they have returned to the 50’s in Obion County…
The **18**50’s, that is…
October 4th, 2010 at 10:28 amIf this were the case, these firefighters couldn’t put out a regular fire on condemned property, could it? Unless the bank pays the fee?
Compassion for the fellow man has hit rock bottom in some places.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:28 amInterestingly, why did the firefighters bother to show up at all? They probably had a list of people who paid and didn’t pay. So why show up just to stand there and watch? Obviously, they made their point loud and clear.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:29 amRepublicans intentionally miss the point in It’s a Wonderful Life. Their perfect world is a cutthroat, wild west, wide open, anything for a buck, Pottersville. Humans want to live in Bedford Falls, bank at the Building and Loan and help our neighbors when we can.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:29 amI’ve found the model for modern Republicans: ancient Roman despots.
Crassus, Roman trillionaire
Marcus Licinius Crassus’ next concern was to rebuild the fortunes of his family, which had been confiscated during the Marian-Cinnan proscriptions. Sulla’s own proscriptions ensured that his survivors would recoup their lost fortunes from the fortunes of wealthy adherents to Gaius Marius or Lucius Cornelius Cinna. Proscriptions meant that their political enemies lost their fortunes and their lives; that their female relatives (notably, widows and widowed daughters) were forbidden to remarry; and that in some cases, their families’ hopes of rebuilding their fortunes and political significance were destroyed. Crassus is said to have made part of his money from proscriptions, notably the proscription of one man whose name was not initially on the list of those proscribed but was added by Crassus who coveted the man’s fortune.[2] Crassus is estimated to have had over 1.79 trillion dollars based on an 1828 equivalence of 31 (American) dollars to one sesterce.
The rest of Crassus’ wealth was acquired more conventionally, through traffic in slaves, the working of silver mines, and judicious purchases of land and houses, especially those of proscribed citizens. Most notorious was his acquisition of burning houses: when Crassus received word that a house was on fire, he would arrive and purchase the doomed property along with surrounding buildings for a modest sum, and then employ his army of 500 clients to put the fire out before much damage had been done. Crassus’ clients employed the Roman method of firefighting—destroying the burning building to curtail the spread of the flames.
Those who don’t know history, are doomed to repeat it.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:31 amMy guess is the community that does pay taxes to this dept. probably pays less than $75 per household. And when you pay it in your taxes it is deductible on your federal taxes. When it is a fee it isn’t. It is why it aggravates me that our garbage is privatized and expensive.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:33 amKufPu says:
Interestingly, why did the firefighters bother to show up at all? They probably had a list of people who paid and didn’t pay. So why show up just to stand there and watch? Obviously, they made their point loud and clear.
In case the fire spreads to subscriber’s homes.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:33 amTo Wormwood: Fire safety and fire insurance are two very, very different things. Fire departments should not be in the insurance business. Period. Thanks to stewartjt @59 for providing a beautiful movie analogy showing the difference betwen humans and Republicans.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:34 amOr, as some know it, “Republican Utopia”
October 4th, 2010 at 10:34 amClarification to my statement #52 — The Courts shot down the For-Profit pre-pay only existence of Emergency Services. They can be a charge-after service; but only in the cases of Medical. Personal Danger (Fire and Police) situations may not be based on a For-Profit only system and are considered public right as the danger from the situation can easily spill over from a contained to a public issue (See example of Great Chicago Fire of 1871).
October 4th, 2010 at 10:34 amWant to bet homeowners insurance won’t want to pay because the guy hadn’t paid the fire dept.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:37 amWelcome to the Republican vision of the future. Next thing you know all streets will be tolls and you will have to pay to exit your driveway. Or have to pay extra to get safe food or drugs.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:37 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
stewarjt says: Republicans intentionally miss the point in It’s a Wonderful Life
I asked the question to my rethug acquaintances for years, When you watch “It’s a Wonderful Life”, do you root for Mr. Potter? That query always spawns lively discussion.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:38 amShayne says:
Want to bet homeowners insurance won’t want to pay because the guy hadn’t paid the fire dept.
betting one of the commissioners is the insurance person holding said policy.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:40 amI can just picture the firefighters of Obion County showing up on the front porch of a non-subscriber with a gas can and a box of matches… The chief props his foot on a bundle of newspapers to be recycled and lights himself a cigar…
“Nice house ya got here… be a shame if something happened to it…”
(flicks cigar on bundle of newspapers)
“how clumsy of me… I’d put that out if I were you.”
October 4th, 2010 at 10:40 am“christian compassion” on display in the bible belt.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:40 amThe some wealthy tools want to privatize things because they can afford fees and don’t want to pay for anybody else. Of course they’re never going to have to decide whether to buy food or pay the fire dept. fee. Just like they believe everybody has enough money to put some away for retirement because they have so much extra to stash.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:41 amIn case the fire spreads to subscriber’s homes.
Which it did, of course. My duh. But still, a pretty stark point was made by their presence.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:42 amso question
how do they get billed for said fee?
October 4th, 2010 at 10:43 amhow many late notices when out?
how many times where said family notify that said bill is not paid?
Don’t you think a better model would be to put out the fire then bill him for the service? One could calculate the value in terms of firefighter time (although they were probably volunteers), diesel to power the engines, and water from the hydrant utilized.
And of course the thing is that the service cost was already incurred by the firefighters—they brought their equipment, they spent the time on the scene doing nothing other than putting out the neighbors lawn fire, apparently. So they would have been much better financially if they had offered to put out the fire for a fee. Not compassionate, and not even very good capitalists. Sheesh.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:44 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Here’s what I don’t understand. These guys are FIREFIGHTERS, how do they stand there and watch a house burn down? Sure, the Chief has to answer to the higher ups and refuse service because the fee was not paid. But why would actual firefighters sit around and stand for that, what do they care about fees? Where were the Rescue Me, 62 Truck type of firefighters who do the job first and answer to their bosses 2nd?
Or why couldn’t the fire been put out, and then the homeowner assessed the fire fee and a penalty on his real estate tax bill, or via a lien on his property?
October 4th, 2010 at 10:44 amIMHO, public good matters shouldn’t be an OPT IN/OUT thing. Under this point of view, services like firefighting, security (in the form of police), healthcare, generic transportation, justice and law should be granted for everyone and billed to the whole society in the form of taxes (fees if it’s more pallatable to Republicons out there), simply because the selfish decission of a person affects negatively the community. You want the “freedom” to be a selfish prick? Buy an island, declare it an independent country and move there, permanently.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:45 amjbrantow,Their Republican version of xtianity,no compassion and certainly no empathy,their bible is the book by Phillip K.Dick’s Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, no compassion no empathy whatsoever!!!!
October 4th, 2010 at 10:46 amrepukes F~ed this country
October 4th, 2010 at 10:46 amfergus says:” no taxes means no services”
I say “No comapssion no Empathy”,fixed for you conservatard.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:48 amWhat if someone was trapped inside the burning building?
October 4th, 2010 at 10:49 amI guess the fire dept. would stand there and watch them die?
Then get charged with depraved indifference?
blogbob says: #15
Glad I read your post. I am thinking the same thing. Someone needs to find out who’s taxes paid for all the fire equipment and fast. This may get even uglier.
And just for shits and giggles, those black-hearted jerks that pretend to be firefighters are not. A real firefighter would have never let a house just burn to the ground. If you want to see an example of a real firefighter just pull up anything from New York. Or any other city for that matter. It seems to me that the $75 subscription is a scam to make extra money. So its time to follow it and see just where it leads.
We should also find out where to make donations to the Cranick family and post pictures of these pseudo-firefighters so they can be properly vilified.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:50 amConservatards= no compassion no emepathy.That’s their version of Jesus………….
October 4th, 2010 at 10:51 amfergus, what you say is true to a point however towns use gimmicks as revenue enhancers all the time. Like saying they’ll cover unincorporated areas for a fee, overzealous writing of traffic tickets, requiring permits for garage sales, etc.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:51 amFor all we know the homeowner was out of work and didn’t have the $75. The Republican way is that you never give anybody the benefit of the doubt or help somebody in need because that is socialism.
The ends justify the means when it come to dealing with F~in repukes
October 4th, 2010 at 10:53 amThe trolls act like somebody is keeping them here that they can’t leave if they don’t like the content of the threads. Maybe the Koch brothers are keeping them strapped to their desks.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:54 am@77 — The outrage comes from several reasons:
1.) Was the property owner fully aware the house would burn down in the case the fee was not paid or were they led to believe they could be billed?
2.) The property owner offered to pay at point of incident but was refused. That is heinous.
3.) While the charge is currently $75, what if it had been $1400 annual, making it less affordable. This is a terrible precedent.
4.) The Firefighters with full equipment responded to the scene and stood-by as the house burned. What if the fire had hit say a major gas-line and taken out other subscribers homes? Preventative measures could have stopped the spread yet they had the contract in mind first; this goes against all sense of providing for the general safety of the public.
A fire is a very dangerous thing, that can easily break containment, spreading to other areas without warning. This is one of the most basic tenants of fire safety we are all taught as children. For people that work as Professional Firefighters, disregarding this, is an item of gross negligence…
October 4th, 2010 at 10:54 amWhat are the odds that this family will receive nothing from their home owners insurance because they failed to subscribe to this joke of a service?
October 4th, 2010 at 10:54 amWormwoody, I thought Ky and Tn were in America but then again your probably a Tenther without compassion or empathy,right?Let the house down and if someone is in it,oh well to bad right?You don’t pay you die,just like our 37th in the world health care system…..
October 4th, 2010 at 10:56 amWelcome to the future of conservative Utopia. A land where everything is privatized.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:56 amrepukes = taliban
October 4th, 2010 at 10:56 amHey Trolls,How would you feel if this was your house/TRAILER on fire and you didn’t pay your FEE for the fire dept.?
October 4th, 2010 at 10:58 amFergus,
It could be quite possible that this particular home owner knew the score and decided to simply not pay. Rolling the dice as you put it. But should that matter, or should those who could have helped, helped?
My wife is a nurse, she is bound by law to assist where she can even if we just happen upon a situation in which there is no opportunity for her get paid for her assistance. But, my wife would help you even if there was no law saying she had to. That is the difference between being compassionate and being heartless.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:58 am“A local newspaper further pressed Mayor Crocker about the city’s policy, which has been in place since 1990. Crocker, a Republican who was elected in 2008 and serves with a county commission where every seat is also filled by a Republican,… likened the policy to buying auto insurance. The paper said he told them that, after all, “if an auto owner allowed their vehicle insurance to lapse, they would not expect an insurance company to pay for an unprotected vehicle after it was wrecked.”
What a fatally flawed analogy, they didn’t ask for the fire department to pay for their home, just to put out the damn fire. If your car was on fire or you were trapped inside, the fire department would put it out or rescue you whether you had auto insurance or not.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:59 amMr.Bungle,The difference is your wife has compassion and empathy to jump right in to save a life,conservatards are pay up first and then we can help you.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:01 amSounds simple enough to me. You wouldn’t live without health-insurance, would you?
Scumbag.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:01 amThe way to do it is the way mountain rescue services function:
When they’re in trouble, they help to the full extent of their ability.
Then they bill them.
Put the fire out, save property and maybe save lives–then bill the family for their unpaid fees, costs and maybe a little penalty.
That way if the family refuses to pay, they’re the callous ungrateful ones.
Plus, you don’t have a neighborhood with a burned out hulk in the middle of it. But maybe in rural Tennessee they’re OK with that. In a suburban community homeowners would see the value of their homes plummet to have a burned house down the street.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:03 amThen again, what family (say, with young children) would move into a community with that kind of fire protection?
Welcome to the depraved new world.
“If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever.”
October 4th, 2010 at 11:05 amThe trolls think we’re upset because the firefighters stood by and watched a non-subscriber’s house burned to the ground.
Nope. We’re upset because Republicans set up a system that allows firefighters to stand around and watch while a citizens house burns to the ground.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:05 amWorm says:
Sounds simple enough to me. You wouldn’t drive without auto-insurance, would you?
How many Republicans are out there without an auto insurance? I bet a good number.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:06 am@87, the Troll is too stupid to realize the Rand Paul statement was about putting about fires, not geographical place of residence.
Trollup, it’s OK to write two separate thoughts in the same post. Granted, your dried up little pile of protoplasm you call a brain most likely can’t process this, but keep trying to make an ass of yourself; you’re doing just fine.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:06 amMore to the point: we’re upset because Republicans set up a system designed to allow firefighters to stand around a watch a house burn to the ground.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:07 amCristopher wiwi @ 82. I am in no way whatsoever a conservative. They are a plague on this country. My point is that Mr. Cranick was betting that he would never need fire protection services, hence, he wouldn’t pay. Yes, the firefighters should have put out the fire, then charged him the fee. They didn’t and that’s a sin on them. Cranick didn’t pay the fee and that’s a sin on him. I don’t think anyone was right in this sad story.
Shane @ 86. There is nothing in the story which would lead to your scenario. For all we know Mr. Cranick is one of these teabagger conservatives who doesn’t believe in paying his fair share of taxes, or fees, or whatever you want to call it.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:09 amThis would be totally unbelievable if it weren’t for the fact that REPUBLICANS are in charge. This is the same mentality they have about Health Care.
Do they also charge for Police Protection???
Wouldn’t it be great for the Police to stand by and watch someone be raped or murdered because the person didn’t pay their FEE???
I’m sure all these fine Republicans are Bible-Thumping Church Goers as well.
As Jesus said, “That which you do to the least of these, you do unto me.”
I guess that only counts when there’s not money involved.
Barbaric!!!
October 4th, 2010 at 11:11 amWelcome to the future of conservative Utopia. A land where everything is privatized and only those who can afford to pay for the service will receive it.
You wake up to a home invasion where your house is being robbed by thieves, no use calling the privatized police force because you can’t afford their monthly premiums.
You visit your elderly father who suddenly collapses unconscious on the kitchen floor, no use calling for paramedics and an ambulance because your father couldn’t afford their service since his social security retirement benefits were cut.
Your city who is in the red decides to sell their water department, but you cannot afford the new monthly premiums charged by the private company, no more running water for you in your home.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:12 amPerhaps the department could have taken the fee onsite, perhaps even doubling it. That may have been the proper response.
So that’s the question. A SUBSCRIPTION is different from an insurance premium which is different from a protection racket payoff. A subscription is simply a pre-paid fee. If that’s truly what this case was, then the homeowner should have been able to pay the fee (maybe a higher amount since it wasn’t pre-paid) to have the fire department put out the fire. What actually happened smells more of a protection racket.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:15 amWorm says:
Sounds simple enough to me. You wouldn’t drive without auto-insurance, would you?
==============
Oh the simplicity of being stupid. Ignorance must be bliss.
You’d still drive if you couldn’t afford insurance. Unless you took advantage of the socialist public transportation service.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:15 amObviously, it’s tough emotionally and financially for the Cranick family to lose their home. But instead of making this story about the purportedly heartless administrators of the City of South Fulton, shouldn’t the focus be on the failure of the rural Obion County residents to embrace basic progressive ideals—and impose and require payment of taxes to support a fire department for the benefit of all county residents—before the fire?
Although it’s apparently a very Republican place, the City of South Fulton, which is part of Obion County, has taxed its residents at a sufficient level to develop and operate a fire protection system. Thus, for the residents of the City, South Fulton’s leaders have embraced the progressive ideal of a fire department “that works for all people, regardless of their racial, religious, or economic background.”
From the report linked in the news story, it appears that Obion County has been unwilling to impose sufficient taxes to operate a fire department for the benefit of all county residents, a rejection of progressive ideals that imposes substantial risk on rural county residents. I don’t understand why progressive values require the taxpayers of the City of South Fulton to perpetually pay to provide fire protection services for county residents who refuse to pay taxes to support services that benefit everyone (or, in the Cranick’s case, refuse to pay a fee to cover themselves). Why should progressives forever be forced to bailout (or pay the freight) for unwilling conservatives? The rural Obion County residents are akin to so many “small government conservatives” who bitterly complain about “big government” and “excessive taxes” day and night—but scream “where’s the Government?” the minute a hurricane, tornado, flood, or fire wreaks havoc where they live.
To the extent the Cranick’s tragedy provides a teaching moment, it’s for the crowd screaming “I want a small Government and don’t want to pay taxes.” This is what it means to be on your own.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:16 amNYFD’s Firgefighters: Rushed into the WTC buildings to save people, knowing that they could (and many did) lose their lives. Risking their lives for the sake of their neighbors. Heroes.
Tennessee County’s Subscription-Based Firefighters: Rushed to a burning house in order to watch it burn. I’m amazed they didn’t bring marshmallows to roast them over the fire. Risking their life only for paying subscribers. NOT heroes.
Evil Spaniard says:
Crassus’ clients employed the Roman method of firefighting—destroying the burning building to curtail the spread of the flames.
Well that would finally explain the Iraq invasion and destruction…
October 4th, 2010 at 11:18 amfergus says:
Objection, your honor–facts not in evidence.
We don’t know if the South Fulton Fire Dept. receives any benefit from property taxes charged to residents of Olbion County. One would assume not, but that part of the story is not known.
If South Fulton is like most fire departments, they probably get funding from anywhere they can, including state and/or federal grants as well as local taxes, or even fund drives (that’s how my volunteer department dealt with serving areas for which they received no tax funding–door-to-door capmaigns).
All of this ias irrelevant to the question at hand. does a government-run or volunteer fire service have a DUTY to act in the absence of another department’s serving the area? I would say that the homeowner probably has a good case against the county government for failure to provide the service, and against the fire department for negligence–failure to act when a duty to do so is implied. Once again, the city department could put out the fire, then bill the property owner for the full cost of the service. The homeowner’s fire insurance whould probably even pay for the FD service in that case.
But then, we are talking about Teabagger America, where taxes are evil and fees are good. I’ll bet if NASCAR held a race in Olbion County that the South Fulton FD would send a rescue squad to stand by without blinking an eye.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:18 amHelp me out here. How can you get home insurance without a fire clause in it? How does home insurance change in the country side?
October 4th, 2010 at 11:19 amCrocker, a Republican who was elected in 2008 and serves with a county commission where every seat is also filled by a Republican,
This is why we need to just give Republican/libertarian/teabaggers part of the country, and let them secede from the union. They can set up their own version of Somalia. Of course, we will have to give them aid when their towns burn down, and they are starving on 10 cents per hour.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:22 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
fergus says:
Objection again, your Honor. Facts not in evidence. We don’t know why the homeowner did not pay his fee. Maybe he’s supporting his Teabagger relative who can’t keep a job longer than a year.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:24 amStorm says:
Remember the old externinator commericals? “Pay me now or pay me later?” If you advertise that the subscription is $75, or the cost will be billed at full value ($thousands), most people will choose the $75. Those who cannot due to economic need will have a lien imposed for the rest of their lives.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:26 amStorm says:
I bet this idiot will remember to pay his $75 next time. If they would’ve put this fire out no one would pay their $75.
How very “Christian” of you…
October 4th, 2010 at 11:27 amRe: Zimzone @ 28:
You are the sort of firefigher I have always admired as a hero. Be safe out there!
October 4th, 2010 at 11:27 amMr. Bungle @ 97. Yes, the fire department should have put out the fire. That’s what they are for. I am not arguing that point, at all. What I’m trying to get across is that Mr. Cranick was fully aware of the fee and didn’t pay it. Then he cries bitter tears at the end result. I do feel for his loss, but, not for his anger.
Where I live the villages in the county pay a fee to the county for a full-time deputy sheriff to patrol the community. They do this instead of paying for a village police officer. Not all of the villages do so, and some have switched from one service to the other. The point being, the citizens pay a tax (fee) for police protection. In addition, the villages each have a volunteer fire department, payed for through village taxes. My son is a member of one of these departments. The people who live in the rural areas outside of the villages or the city pay a fire protection fee and are aware of the consequences of failure to pay. Member of society should be grateful for these services and shouldn’t squawk at the cost. Those who don’t want to pay shouldn’t squawk at the end result.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:28 amGotta love that American-style libertarianism…
/snark
October 4th, 2010 at 11:29 amThis is exactly the kind of America the Republicans want to build. Sadly, I have no idea what the Democrats want.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:31 amRepublican Christianity has nothing in common with the original version.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:32 ami hope the cranicks are able to move back into civilization after this.
caveat emptor – those low, low TN real estate prices have some important strings attached.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:33 am@101:
Well they follow Supply Side Jesus — so it is more like:
“That which you do to the least of these, you do unto me. Unless they forgot to pay their upfront protection agreement fee; in which case too bad for them.”
October 4th, 2010 at 11:35 amLuis Chapulin M says:
Evil Spaniard says:
Crassus’ clients employed the Roman method of firefighting—destroying the burning building to curtail the spread of the flames.
Well that would finally explain the Iraq invasion and destruction…
October 4th, 2010 at 11:18 am Vote Up | Vote Down | (2)
Nothing works better than the classic methods! /snark
October 4th, 2010 at 11:36 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
CZ-1 says:
I wonder if the Chief had to pay the cost of fire engines standing at idle in front of a burning house??
October 4th, 2010 at 11:36 am“… they would not expect an insurance company to pay for an unprotected vehicle after it was wrecked.”
but the auto body shop would still fix that car…
since the homeowner wanted to pay for expenses, the mayor’s excuse does not make any sense…
this story is guaranteed to make keith’s list tonight…
October 4th, 2010 at 11:36 amI can’t speak without trying to slam Crock-o’-$#!*.
Better yet, why can’t we help this family out with donations? They lost everything.
…
YES, IT’S SOCIALIST. DEAL WITH IT. The haves giving to the have-nots is the only way we can help others. We can’t expect the poor and the unlucky to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, because there’s a major chance that they don’t even have boots.
“Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country did to you.” – KMFDM
October 4th, 2010 at 11:37 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
no you don’t. you just say shit like that so people will take you seriously.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:40 amStorm says:
shoeless says:
Luis Chapulin M says:
——————————————————————————–
Storm says:
I bet this idiot will remember to pay his $75 next time. If they would’ve put this fire out no one would pay their $75.
How very “Christian” of you…
Republican Christianity has nothing in common with the original version.
We just like people to be responsible individuals.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:39 am Vote Up | Vote Down | (0)
And the Republican method (remember, the county has a Republican super majority and has had it for 20 years, since the rule was approved by, yes, Republicans) has demonstrated its lack of effectivity. FAIL!!!
October 4th, 2010 at 11:42 amStorm says:
We just like people to be responsible individuals.
Fair question, no snarkiness involved: who’s “We”?
October 4th, 2010 at 11:44 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
TORM INSULT
It’s not very effective…
October 4th, 2010 at 11:45 amCheetos and Mountain Dew, obviously.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:46 amStorm says:
tombaker says:
We just like people to be responsible individuals.
no you don’t. you just say shit like that so people will take you seriously.
I do? Wow I had no idea you were telepathic. What do I want for lunch?
October 4th, 2010 at 11:44 am Vote Up | Vote Down | (0)
That’s easy. Shit.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:46 amStorm says:
We just like people to be responsible individuals.
Responsible people pay taxes.
Responsible people have fire departments for everybody.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:47 amBahahahahah…..ahh yes, the free market spreads it’s magical wings once again and all is well with the world…….NOT!
October 4th, 2010 at 11:47 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
So the Invisible Hand decided to have a weenie roast instead of holding a firehose?
October 4th, 2010 at 11:50 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Storm says:
‘We’ would be the people who don’t make excuses for every single problem they encounter in life.
Guess you’re rooting for the visiting team, then.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:52 amStorm says:
Luis Chapulin M says:
Storm says:
We just like people to be responsible individuals.
Fair question, no snarkiness involved: who’s “We”?
‘We’ would be the people who don’t make excuses for every single problem they encounter in life.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:49 am
Taxes are a problem in life?
October 4th, 2010 at 11:53 amThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Storm says:
Responsible people who own a house have to have enough sense to know how to protect it. If you live somewhere where you need to pay a yearly fee of $75 to have fire service then it would make sense to pay that. You do not need to own a house if you can afford .20 a day to protect it.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:54 am Vote Up | Vote Down | (0)
That’s the spirit in the taxing system. Why are a majority of conservatives (including you in many other threads) against it?
October 4th, 2010 at 11:56 am‘We’ would be the people who don’t make excuses for every single problem they encounter in life.
Who coined then term, “Islamofacist?”
A conservative who makes excuses for his own Ugly Americanism.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:56 amIf that is the fire department that would respond, they should assess a fee through taxes. Do not have it as a “no pay, no service.” Everyone needs to be able to have police, fire and ambulance service as socialist as it may be.
I wonder how insurance companies feel about this? I don’t think they can deny coverage in this case unless there was a specific clause stating that they must pay a private fee for fire department service. Are their contracts that advanced yet?
October 4th, 2010 at 11:58 amIf you live somewhere where you need to pay a yearly fee of $75 to have fire service then it would make sense to pay that.
They could have put out the fire, and charged them for services rendered.
But tough guys like to show their “authoritay”.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:58 amStorm says:
Responsible people who own a house have to have enough sense to know how to protect it. If you live somewhere where you need to pay a yearly fee of $75 to have fire service then it would make sense to pay that. You do not need to own a house if you can afford .20 a day to protect it.
I hate agreeing with TORM about anything, but I’m pretty sure I would have found some way to come up with $75 to protect my house, assuming I knew in advance that I would not otherwise be covered.
That being said, the “firefighters” are in the wrong. There’s no reason at all, beyond pure wickedness, that they let the house burn.
October 4th, 2010 at 11:59 amI bet this idiot will remember to pay his $75 next time. If they would’ve put this fire out no one would pay their $75.
If this homeowner had been made to pay $300 to put out the fire, then other subscribers would have the satisfaction of knowing they are getting a bargain at $75. That’s how a subscription service should work. What you are in favor of is called a protection racket.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:00 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
When I was growing up, we had a service like this, we had a little metal sign about 3″ that was nailed onto the side of the house. I can remember firefighters doing the same thing 40yrs ago to family up a few blocks over. they hosed the 2 houses on the sides of the burning house, but did nothing for it and let it burn. I thought there could not be any place left in America that still collected taxes in this fashion. My bad
October 4th, 2010 at 12:03 pmWow–it looks like Wormtroll has been banned already. And in less than 150 comments!
October 4th, 2010 at 12:04 pmActually, it was coined by a muslim who was describing the fascistic rule of islamists.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:07 pmLuis Chapulin M says:
That would be Screeching Sarah and her brigade of “Real Americans.”
October 4th, 2010 at 12:08 pmThis is just wrong, but it’s really no different than what Republicans figuratively do when they get into office. A true scorched-earth agenda.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:10 pmStorm says:
‘We’ would be the people who don’t make excuses for every single problem they encounter in life.
But you and your fellow ‘conservatives’ constantly make excuses for every single problem you encounter: you blame all your problems on the government, that scary black man in the White House, taxes, liberals, gays, atheists, and the scary ‘Islamofacists’. All I hear is whining.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:12 pmThey are obviously Republican “firefighters”. They allowed the house to burn on principle. You wouldn’t want them to go against their ideology, just to save their neighbor’s home. What would the other Republicans think of them if they violated the cherished right-wing creed?
October 4th, 2010 at 12:13 pmWho are “We the People?”
“Am I my brother’s keeper?”
Choose.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:15 pmshoeless says: …You wouldn’t want them to go against their ideology, just to save their neighbor’s home. What would the other Republicans think of them if they violated the cherished right-wing creed?
I’ll bet Rush Limbaugh will be talking this story up, and he’ll be so proud of those (non) firefighters for following ideology on command.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:16 pmjust like how he was proud of the San Diego residents who had to fight the wildfires themselves because the fire departments were stretched thin…
October 4th, 2010 at 12:19 pmIt’s the republicans . . . Stupid !
October 4th, 2010 at 12:19 pmCZ-1 says:
He’ll also lash out against the “lazy homeowner” who thought he could get away with not paying the “fee.” Funny, he doesn’t take that same approach when the “fee” is called a “tax.”
October 4th, 2010 at 12:19 pmblogbob says: …Funny, he doesn’t take that same approach when the “fee” is called a “tax.”
EXACTLY. Everyone that says, “Why didn’t the homeowner just pay the fee?” is making the case for taxes. If the fee is essentially required to avoid tragedy, then it should simply be a tax. Taxes are then based on wealth and ability to pay. This is the concept of good government. Duh.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:26 pmI wonder how the Cranicks will vote next month. I wonder how they are registered. In a town where 100% of the town council is ‘pub, what did Mr. Cranick do to pi$$ someone off?
I wonder if the homeowner’s insurance will sue the town. I wonder if the Cranicks will.
This story just stinks and I hope it serves as an eye-opener for all those “private is always better than public” folks.
PEACE
October 4th, 2010 at 12:31 pmThis is what the new America will look like under the tea bag republican way of governing. No SS, no medicare, private police, fire and emergency services, no safety net for anyone.
I’m glad I will be relocating in August to a country who cares about its citizens and the people who come to live there. I’m moving to Belize under their retirement plan. Their plan lets me live tax free, $50.00 annual fee for full healthcare coverage, discounts for public transportation, restaurants, movie tickets and food.
This once great nation would have tried to do the same thing for its citizens once upon a time, but no more. We have become a nation of greed, hate and indifference to our fellow citizens, who for whatever reason weren’t so lucky as the few.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:38 pmThis subscription model is nothing new. When I lived in rural Illinois I heard of a similar occurrence in a neighboring county where someone hadn’t bought “fire insurance”.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:47 pmThis is cognitive dissonance at its finest. The repugnicans in their privatize everything zeal, think this is a dandy idea. Pay up or die is the motto. Yet, with healthcare reform, they squeal like stuck pigs and bring lawsuits that people are “forced” to buy health insurance.
Sadly, though, this IS a repugnican idea and the fact the Obama-Rahm machine bought into this bullshit while simultaneously screwing the public option that would have made it a genuine shift, they have rendered health care reform into a patsy of repugnican idealism.
It is why we can’t just condemn those vile, braindead buttheads in this little town for abject policy viciousness but the dismalcrats as well…I mean, it was that sleazebag Larry Summers who ran off to Russia after the Soviet Union collapsed and squealed PRIVATIZE EVERYTHING and meanwhile created a plutocratic oligarchy of hyper-rich scumbag quasi-mafia types, just like we have here.
The strains of poor public policy thinking run very deep and have infected and polluted the waters of ostensible progressivism everywhere.
October 4th, 2010 at 12:49 pmI guess my question is why were the firefighters sent out at all? I agree that if they were there that they should have put the fire out. Not only the possibility of a person being trapped inside, but as some firefighters have already commented, it’s what they do.
Again, the problem I have with this is why the firefighters were sent to the fire in the first place. In the area I live, “rural” usually means “unincorporated”. If this is the case (and for the sake of my questions, I have to assume so), then I understand why the city would require a fee. The city can’t levy a tax as the city does not have the authority to tax non-city residents, but to offset the costs of covering a wider area, they could charge a “fee”. Also I would imagine that a city fire department won’t have the money and resources to support chasing down every fire scattered throughout their area of the county. (This depends on the size of the city, of course, but aren’t most fire depts scaled to the size of the cities?)
To my point, if the city fire dept was dispatched for every fire in the rural parts of the county, regardless of the fee being paid, nobody in the unincorporated areas would ever pay the fee (A “Why pay a fee? They’ll come anyway.” mentality. And honestly, if you didn’t have to pay a fee for a service, would you?). So requiring the fee subsidizes the additional costs of a city fire department covering non-city residents.
Another angle to think about, and this is just speculation, if a city resident (taxed for fire services) has their house burn down while the city fire department is scattered out across the county putting out fires for people who don’t pay into the system, who’s problem is that? Would the city resident have a lawsuit even though the firefighters were just “doing their duty”?
Finally, and this may be a far lesser point, but one must also ask if the fee for the service in the unincorporated areas pays for additional insurance for the firefighters? If a firefighter is hurt putting out the fire on a non-fee-paying house, since it is not within their “jurisdiction”, would their insurance cover it? What would happen then?
Still. I agree that if they were there that they should have done something. But like most stories, I want to know if there are outlying (sp?) circumstances that prohibited them from fighting the fire?
October 4th, 2010 at 12:50 pmZooey
Awesome! Let’s do the same with police, EMT, and ambulance services!
/snark
Sure, we can police ourselves just like big corporations do. We’ll do the right thing. Honest. We won’t pollute anything or drive too fast or kill anyone or sell drugs that might hurt anyone – just like the big guys do…no need to regulate us. And if we do any of those things, no worries, it won’t matter to anyone…
And who needs an EMT? We can drive ourself to the hospital…
October 4th, 2010 at 1:07 pmIf the Reublicans ever gain back power in Congress,the following photo will be a common site across this country:
shorpy.com/node/3290
October 4th, 2010 at 1:16 pmAs found at: shorpy.com
Well, when people are stupid enough to vote republican this is what you get.
October 4th, 2010 at 1:18 pmIt would be interesting to know what the fire department subscription would cost compared to the property tax levied by a public fire protection district.
We do, however see the stark difference between the two systems. for instance, the fire department refused service in this libertarian system, but a public fire prevention district would have stricken the fire and let other authorities deal with the homeowner’s nonpayment of taxes to support the fire department.
Libertarians and Republicans seem devote most of their waking hours to decrying the coercive nature of tax collection, but in view of this example, which system is truly more coercive?
Even a with stipulation that the systems are equally coercive, the public system gives a citizen their democratic input on a fair level of taxation, where a private fire company can charge what they will, limited only by what the market will bear. It seems that with the sort of coercive methods that they have at their disposal, the market will bear quite a bit; perhaps more than some homeowners can afford.
October 4th, 2010 at 1:26 pmThis is the Tea Party and the Republicans ideal America, it’s a f**k you attitude. No one in that county should be surprised because voting Republican is voting against one’s best interest.
October 4th, 2010 at 1:30 pmLibertarianism: Its HOT!!
October 4th, 2010 at 1:37 pmDoes this mean that the Cranick family will be voting for the Democratic candidates in the upcoming election?
October 4th, 2010 at 1:55 pmWhat was satire in December is reality today:
October 4th, 2010 at 2:21 pmhttp://goo.gl/sdhV
So those f8ck idiot republicans believe that the individual mandate, that they oppose only if Democrats impose it, was not adhered to in this case and this is the result?
October 4th, 2010 at 2:26 pmJohnny Allen Hendrix ~ House Burning Down
October 4th, 2010 at 2:30 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8OeKjiDoYE
Real justice would be for the Cranick’s home insurer to go after the FD.
Ever been sued by an insurance company? It’s like being tossed naked into a pen of rabid pit bulls …
October 4th, 2010 at 2:31 pmTired Of It All (November WATERLOO!) says:
dasm says:
Crocker, the firefighters, and anyone else who thinks this is the appropriate way to do “business” – which is how they treat it– are breathtakingly heartless. And if someone had been trapped in the house?
Republiscum: “They die. So?”
October 4th, 2010 at 3:01 pm=========================
… quickly !
Yeah, this family would have been so much better off if the county had a bunch of Dems on the council!
The $75 wouldn’t have been voluntary, it would have been another tax…can’t pay it? No problem, we’ll just take your property then.
Oh yeah, and we forgot to mention. We just gave the FD union a huge pay raise and they can now retire at 50 for full salary…your $75 tax is now $200, but at least the council all got huge campaign contributions for doing such an awesome job protecting us!
October 4th, 2010 at 3:05 pmWhat do you want to bet that their homeowner’s insurance now tries to use their failure to pay the subscription to weasel out of the claim?
October 4th, 2010 at 3:09 pmProMORON
Yes it turned out so WELL for them as it was. It is so much better that their HOUSE BURNED DOWN you soulless piece of SHIT. WWWWWAAAAHHHHHHHH firefighters make a decent living WWWWWAAAHHHHH they only risk their lives to protect the public they should make minimum wage so the OWNERS of the Fire Depts, which should be privitized, get rich. WWWWWAAHHHH it sucks so much that WORKERS can make a decent living and have a decent retirement. They should be wal-Mart greeters till they DIE. GOD I hate jealous punks like you who couldnt get a decent job and resent workers who DO make a good living because they were smart enough to be in a union. You are pathetic.
October 4th, 2010 at 3:12 pmHere is an actual comment from a conservative regarding this story:
The incident you cite is neither conservative nor liberal. It’s a fact of life in myriad rural areas in this country and has been for years. Fire protection is expensive. This is one way small communities help fund the service. People know that yet they don’t pay. This family was asked to pay a pittance; they did not. They, sadly, took a risk and lost. It happens. It’s no different than car insurance or flood insurance. You have it at the time of the incident or you don’t. There’s no such thing as retroactive coverage. It’s not ideological; it’s reality.
My answer to this person: What if they had had to make a choice between feeding their kids and paying for fire protection?
That’s not the kind of reality I want to live with.
Let’s stop wasting half our nation’s resources on bloody war – and put it to better use: HELPING AMERICANS HERE AT HOME.
October 4th, 2010 at 3:14 pmWelcome to Grover Norquist’s America.
October 4th, 2010 at 3:23 pmI love the liberal definition of compassion. They see a shivering, barefoot home-less homeless person on the street. As two well dressed businessmen walk by a lib will grab an armed revenue agent and say, “Those two guys have money, take one of them’s shoes and the other’s coat and give them to that bum”. Then the lib walks on telling everyone he meets how compassionate he is because obtained shoes and a coat for some unfortunate who lost life’s lottery.
October 4th, 2010 at 3:27 pmAccording to the local TV station site, this has engendered a lot of heated discussion in the county. Cranik’s son went to the fire station and assaulted the fire chief– police were called and the chief was given aid in an ambulance.
October 4th, 2010 at 3:53 pmRE the luxury development that will not be incorporated into the county and hence has no library, etc…. do the local insurance companies know this? Would be fun to get that word to the right place,like maybe the mortgage holding banks.
As for the house and the firefighters…. if they are an accredited fire department and the firefighters themselves are accredited, they are or should be in a lot of trouble. They will lose accreditation, then their own insurance, state licensing to perform as firefighters, etc…. hope this horses a++ of a “chief” has thought this through…
October 4th, 2010 at 3:56 pmRepublicanism in a nutshell.
And notice how all the public services that Republicans have privatized or want to privatize all involve labor unions, and middle-class workers and their families, including Republicans who belong to labor unions.
Public fire departments. Public schools. Public airport control towers. Public postal service.
I could go on, but you get the picture. The Republicans are union-busting scabs of the worst kind, like Ronald Reagan.
But we now know the Republican mentality behind what happened in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina made landfall, after the city’s levees broke and New Orleans flooded.
Louisiana had a Democratic Party governor, Gov. Blanco. New Orleans had a Democratic Party mayor, Mayor Nagin.
On the other hand, both Mississippi and Alabama, neighboring Gulf Coast states similarly devastated by Katrina, had Republican governors.
No pay, no play…just like what happened in this Tennessee county with Republicans letting this house burn down.
In the case of Katrina and the response of the Republicans in the Bush/Cheney administration, things changed as soon as the levees broke and New Orleans flooded. Republicans immediately launched a smear campaign against Gov. Blanco, claiming that she hadn’t requested federal emergency disaster assistance from the White House before Katrina hit. Bad governor. Bad Democrats. Except Gov. Blanco had, forty-eight hours before Katrina made landfall. WhiteHouse(dot)gov had the documents on-line, including the one authorizing the DHS and FEMA to establish a FEMA command center in Baton Rouge.
After the right-wing smear campaign began, the delays began in getting desperately-needed aid into New Orleans. U.S. search and rescue helicopters were ordered to stand-down (by Donald Rumsfeld). The FEMA disaster coordinator complained about his orders being countermanded, and supplies/personnel that he was trying to get into New Orleans were being redirected elsewhere. Two U.S. military helicopters out of Pensacola FL that did make it into New Orleans, rescuing people from rooftops before heading back to base, reported that as they were flying westward on their resupply mission to a base outside New Orleans from their Pensacola base, they saw lots of emergency disaster response activity on the ground and in the air as they passed over the Alabama and Mississippi coasts, but once they passed into Louisiana airspace (but especially over New Orleans), they saw little to no emergency disaster response activity on the ground or in the air.
No pay, no play. Republicans. Top Bush/Cheney administration officials. Desperate days in New Orleans and at the Superdome passed. No pay, no play. The equivalent to what these Tennessee Republicans just did in standing by while a house burned down. No pay, no play.
With the only difference being that while no one died in this house fire, a whole lot of people in New Orleans did die because of what the top Republican officials in the Bush/Cheney administration did, politicizing a national disaster response, rushing aid to Republican-friendly states while withholding aid from Democratic-friendly Louisiana and New Orleans. Shameful. Disastrous. Deadly. Republican business-as-usual.
I’m voting straight Democratic Party ticket in November. It might just save someones life or property, even that of some of my Republican neighbors. No, no, no need to thank me. I’m a liberal Democrat. I just do what I can to help.
October 4th, 2010 at 4:09 pmHey, wait. This comment thread is in the wrong blog.
Almost everyone has chosen the side of the Property Oligarch Cranick. Almost no one is willing to suggest that the Cranicks should have paid the $75. Why is the service provider to blame and not the money provider? The Cranicks are the evil bourgeois property barons who are refusing to pay the noble Workers. What should the noble Workers do when they are taken advantage of by the Cranick Property Oligarchs? Surely they should ride their trucks to the scene and set up a picket line. “Workers Unite! Let no one through to work for this running dog capitalist!”
Please join me in the chant:
October 4th, 2010 at 4:34 pm“We want fair wages!”
“We want fair wages!”
Here is the rest of the story.
The county the dude lives in doesn’t have fire protection. The county commission voted against it 19 to 1. Instead, they opted to receive fire protection from a city in the county on a fee based system. At first, they didn’t have a subscription but instead charged homeowners $500 for a fire call. Less than 50% of those from the county who made a call paid the $500. The city had no means to collect. They then voted to go to a subscription service that the county commissioners agreed to. For $75 a year, you get unlimited fire calls. This particular homeowner had been sent a bill and called on the phone. He opted out. He stated after the fire, “I thought they would put it out even if you didn’t pay.”
October 4th, 2010 at 4:50 pmjdMORON
You are a LIAR. You tell this STUPID story based on what RUSH told you to think because you are JUST. THAT. STUPID, and brainwashed. A conservatives idea of compassion is to see a family eating grass and tells them its terrible he will feed them and takes them to his house then tells them to mow his lawn then eat HIS grass. FOAD punk
October 4th, 2010 at 4:56 pmThe solution here is obvious: Everyone else in the county should be required to purchase “uninsured homeowners” insurance to pay for fire protection for those who opt out. The other folks in the county can just pay – what? – double so that others can get their fires put out without paying anything. See? Everybody wins!
By the way, if you Google this guy up you will find out that he owns a cattle farm that seems to be doing well. He is not destitute.
October 4th, 2010 at 5:01 pmOne more thing, it sure is nice to see the people on this forum support the plight of a libertarian who opted out of paying for community resources and got stung for it. Liberals truly are compassionate.
October 4th, 2010 at 5:03 pmwizard2000 says: @ 187
Absolutely correct…this is a microcosm of the NO nightmare.
Obviously, the longterm Republican plan is to destroy government and re-incorporate the 50 states as operating units of Koch Industries.
October 4th, 2010 at 5:13 pmWhen you privatize government’s duty to its citizens, you are taking away the citizen’s right to have a say in the face their government shows to the world.
You are also taking away the right to change their mind. Once a service is contracted out, all resources and corporate knowledge disappear. Not to mention accountability.
We can’t move, house or feed our military without a contractor agreeing to do it for us.
Halliburton/KBR didn’t lose a penny when they couldn’t deliver water to soldiers in Iraq. Or killed over 90 armed forces members by electrocution due to faulty wiring. They may have to take a reduction in bonuses, but our military died. And then we had to go back, helmet in hand, and give them more money to fix what they did wrong.
The coldheartedness of some posters is a sign that they never missed a meal in their lives. Many of us can’t say that.
This brittle indifference to human suffering is depraved.
May you never be treated so poorly yourself.
October 4th, 2010 at 5:24 pmIt appears that the Mafia is doing very well in Tennessee. This is a protection racket, pure and simple, and should be prosecuted under the RICO statutes. I’m so glad I don’t live in the South where men pretend to be men. Apparently, everyone is afraid of the mayor.
I also smell a lawsuit on this one, a huge lawsuit.
The whole incident is so very pathetic.
October 4th, 2010 at 5:54 pmIf they don’t want to pay for fire insurance fine. Just don’t complain when the house goes up in flames.
October 4th, 2010 at 6:12 pmConservaTROLL
If you dont want to be a decent human being fine. Just dont snivel that no one cries in the inevitable day the misery of your pathetic life overtakes you and you put a bullet through your shit filled trollskull. The world will CHEER
October 4th, 2010 at 6:16 pmWhen a government monopoly that prohibits competitors, from state schools to state health care systems to state fire departments, denies service or provides shoddy service, unthinking regressives, that is a failure of your primitive ideologies.
In a real market economy you might not be able to get a loan to buy a house without insurance, and you probably couldn’t get insurance if you didn’t buy whatever fire protection the insurance company deemed necessary. Of course, unlike under the corporatist systems you Soros and Podesta concubines have created, there would be freedom of entry for new fire fighting firms and for new insurance companies.
But if you refused to protect your home you might have to be a renter.
October 4th, 2010 at 6:24 pmThe more I think about this, the more I’m wondering if the owner of the burning house didn’t have a bit of a “history” with one or more members of the part-time-fire-putter-outer-crowd. The way I figure it, there’s some people who they would have put the fire out for — that cute little blond who waits tables at the local restaurant and wears a blouse that’s just a little loose in the front dontcha know. And then there are the cantankerous ones who just get on some folks’ nerves.
October 4th, 2010 at 8:06 pmI so loooovvveee ConservaTrolls.
“Government monopoly?” Helllooo, it’s our damn government. It’s supposed to be non-profit, non-partisan, representing ALL U.S. citizens, not just one party, not just one corporation, not just one set of investors, not just the wealthy, nor even just the poor ALL American citizens.
And this ignorant ConservaTroll follows Maxine’s excellent post at #194 reminding us all that privatizing the U.S. military killed U.S. soldiers due to faulty private contractor wiring, electrocuting them. And I don’t remember ever seeing that the private contractors responsible were arrested, tried and convicted of murder or manslaughter of U.S. troops. Oh, right, the lawless Bush/Cheney administration extended their lawlessness to all the no-bid private contractors they hired over in the Bush/Cheney war zones, essentially giving all their crony Republican pals running the private contractor companies “unitary executive” immunity.
When I served in the U.S. military, long before all this right-wing privatize-everything-public crap, I never heard of any instance where a U.S. soldier was electrocuted while taking a shower, and yet we heard of multiple instances over in Bush’s illegal war in Iraq.
Republicanism equals Lawlessness…lawlessness that has even gotten members of our military killed.
I’m voting straight Democratic Party in November, and no ConservaTroll crap is going to change my mind. Our troops today deserve better.
October 4th, 2010 at 8:14 pmyou bleeding heart liberals are so misguided. These people don’t live in the district and they had a chance to buy add’l protection services other than the county (for only $75). So if the city fire fighters helped them out, should they be able to charge the homeowners for their services. Now if this was the county and they refused services, that is a different thing since they should have services provided by the county. This situation occurs all the time with the battles between cities and counties. I am sure that if their was life in danger, the city firefighters would have assisted otherwise why would they have responded in the first place.
October 4th, 2010 at 8:39 pmThree dogs and a cat were roasted alive while these firefighters watched. This has nothing to do with being a bleeding heart liberal. This has to do with saving lives even though it was only “animals.” I am really ashamed of our country. We are in such deep trouble. There is no compassion or humanity left in this country. It makes one want to throw up.
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Property taxes at one time funded police and fire. Now they take our property taxes throw them down some rat hole and bill us for these services. That is the real problem.
October 4th, 2010 at 9:19 pmPrivatize and deregulate, then let the middle man rob the people. That’s the mantra of the ME rightwing crazies. If you want to see the Libertarian dream world, move to Somalia.
October 4th, 2010 at 9:38 pmWhen I lived in rural Oklahoma, we had a volunteer fire department. For awhile they just asked for contributions, & I always contributed even tho as a dirt-farmer I was dirt-poor. Evidently the voluntary contribution policy wasn’t working very well for them, so they instituted a plan whereby you had to “voluntarily” contribute $50 a year or they would not answer your call unless you could promise to have $400 cash ready for them when they showed up. So I contributed my $50.
Then one summer’s day I saw that the haybarn across the street was smoldering, so I called the fire department & told them I was a paid-up customer & the haybarn was about to go up in flames. Well, whoever owned the haybarn (I didn’t know them; their house was quite a ways away on an intersecting road) had not paid their $50, so the fire department told me I would have to pay the $400. I was not going to be that good a neighbor, since I thought the odds of the neighbor reimbursing me would be slim to none, especially as the firemen probably couldn’t save the haybarn. I did drive over to see if anybody was home. Anybody wasn’t. So the barn burnt down. The fire department assured me that if the fire jumped the road, they’d come out & put out whatever was burning at my place. Very noble.
The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com
October 4th, 2010 at 9:48 pm= Tennessee + Ayn Rand
October 4th, 2010 at 9:54 pmHey jdmeth (#184), whatever your doctor is treating you with mush not bee working. Find another doctor and get stronger medication.
You rant is totally insane.
Try again, dude.
October 4th, 2010 at 10:46 pmtaf
You no-heart conservatives are SO STUPID. They PAY TAXES. They should be given fire protection PERIOD. It is one of the services you pay for EVERYWHERE WITH TAXES. The fire Dept is supported with TAXES. Federal money goes TO Fire Depts in MANY WAYS. Letting the house burn when it is a PUBLIC SERVICE was unconsionable. At best they should have billed them the COST instead of the seventy five dollars but letting it burn as barbaric.
October 5th, 2010 at 12:26 amstrolling
he is obviously treating him with meth. Thus the rant
October 5th, 2010 at 12:29 amLogically this is the government that some constituencies have voted for, but at what cost? When did public safety become a product to buy rather than a legitimate function of government? Isn’t government ultimately a shared insurance plan for all taxpaying citizens in their time of need – e.g. FEMA, DOT, National Guard, local police / fire and other emergency services? Our country needs to do some serious reckoning about what constitutes our commons.
October 5th, 2010 at 1:57 amI did a quick search and found this entry on one professional firefighters’ website:
“We took a solemn oath to protect life and property. Most of us considered that oath to be as sacred as our wedding vows… When we took the job we knew it was a dangerous profession. We knew that in spite of their best attempts to stay safe, firefighters would get hurt and killed in the performance of their duties. We accepted the fact that, when the time came, we would, out of necessity, stand in harm’s way so that others might live. That’s what we do. That’s how we contribute to society.”
I consider this the equivalent of a doctor’s Hippocratic Oath. It has been the fabric of our country’s claim to moral and ethical superiority – in fact our great American experiment. Sadly, it is the first thing we lose when our political process devolves into a referendum for and against serving the public good.
October 5th, 2010 at 2:15 amThis is completely backwards. This was the government running this “service,” not some “evil” private enterprise.
Read this: http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=32394
October 5th, 2010 at 6:27 amWhat a crock of horse snot!!!! Don’t pay your taxes and you wont have to wait for a fire, our hallowed government will just take your house and may throw you in jail to boot!
October 5th, 2010 at 9:22 amAlvin
Reminds me of the scene in Gangs of New York, where the competing fire companies arrive at the scene of a fire – and promptly start fighting each other to see who will get to collect the fee (and the loot from the burning building).
Your modern Republican Party: Building a bridge to the 19th century.
October 5th, 2010 at 10:39 am213, except you forgot to note it was a republican government.
October 5th, 2010 at 10:40 amFinally! People get what they pay for… I am normally for the people, but what is the difference here from any other insurance. It would be a different story if a person or pet was inside, but that is not the case. I am poor myself, but I do not expect what I cannot pay for. If they want to risk being cheap and saving $75 it is what they disserve. Our national dept problems need more cases like this for people to learn from.
October 5th, 2010 at 12:19 pmEveryone is blaming the Republicans. This fee, which is nothing more than another word for a tax, has been on the books for 20 years. What was the makeup of the council/county at the time it was enacted? How many opportunities have there been over the last 20 years to repeal it? Just food for thought.
October 5th, 2010 at 1:36 pmRepublicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Teapartiers, Progressives,whatever group you have decided to limit yourself to doesn’t matter. A human being’s house burned to the ground with every possession they had inside. Onlookers had every tool necessary to prevent this from happening. The system may have been in place for all eternity but it obviously does not work. Point fingers at whomever you want but that will not rebuild this persons life.
The real question is why this county does not have enough money to provide a service which is provided to so many other Americans by simply paying taxes. Where does this lack of funds come from? The county would not be imposing a fee if there was subsidies coming in from the state and government.
It is true, this is our government. We should choose where money goes. I can’t speak for you but isn’t it time we told our representatives to forget about partylines just do the right thing by protecting our neighbors and our families first.
October 5th, 2010 at 2:12 pmI’m a fully trained, certified firefighter, but am unpaid as a volunteer. No pension. We are financed by our township and our own fundraising. If we were to respond to non-authorized places, we would soon be out of funds to respond to fires in our area. The cost of equipment and maintenance, insurance and training costs is extremely high, so only the ones who pay taxes to our township for the services get it. (And surrounding townships with whom we have mutual aid pacts.) IT IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN PROVIDE THE SERVICES. Oh yeah, we are governed by Democrats. It is not a Republican monopoly to try to find ways to provide needed services. We look at the options and do the best we can with what we have. VolFire
October 5th, 2010 at 2:56 pmJUST THE FACTS: In 1990 Tennessee was controlled completely by DEMOCRATS!!! Gov. Ned Mc Wherten (D), Lt. Govenor John Wilder (D), US Senator Al Gore Jr. (D), US Senator James Sasser (D), State Legislature and Senate controlled by Democrats and Obion County Democrats!
October 5th, 2010 at 3:10 pmThe firefighters that refused to help this family are employed by the state. They are not a market organization. The state does not respond to market incentives. It doesn’t have the capacity to accept a higher fee for last-minute service. Market organizations do have that capacity. Airlines don’t make you wait two weeks to fly, they just charge more if your need is urgent. Gas stations don’t only offer one kind of gas. They just charge more for the higher quality ones.
Libertarians want market organizations to provide services with free and open competition. I am a libertarian who is not in favor of a state-run fire brigade such as this. I find it utterly stupid and self-destructive of them to not save this house. The fire brigade is short of funds. Imagine their windfall from situations like this! Instead of a measly $75 per house per year they could charge $2,000 to save a house on the spot. If I ran a fire brigade, I would save his house just so I could get him as a customer. If I didn’t, a competitor might.
October 5th, 2010 at 6:58 pmMany thoughtful comments following this perverse piece of Americana. The points regarding individual responsibility for one’s safety are often well put. But the de facto on site firefighters punishment of Gene Cranick for a forgotten bill far, far exceeds the oversight.
October 5th, 2010 at 8:31 pmThe fact that firefighters were so heartless that they let three dogs and a cat be burned alive as the man’s home burned to the ground is unforgivable. They, as well as the pathetic mayor and other authorities that justified this horrid punishment should be prosecuted for cruelty against animals.
Good evening, dbadass. The fall colors are running a couple weeks late as they sohbet odaları have for the last few years. Not much for migrating birds yet either. çilingir Although, I did see a big flock of pelicans soaring in a thermal the other day.
On a more personal note; the local pet store has a nice looking male “scooter blenny” that I hope to pick up in a few days. I lost my mated çilingir pair when I had a power outage while in the hospital. I have a new female that is very fat and happy but it’s still a risk to introduce a prospective mate. aşk şiirleri Since I’ve moved all my mollies out of my quarantine tank I can kadın fatten him up a bit before he has to compete with the whole community.
October 5th, 2010 at 9:44 pmSo Glenn Beck is commenting aşk şiirleri on it but it is TP that is making it political. Is THAT your position? Do we have video izle some obligation to allow the BECKS of the diyet world to shape the opinion on such issues web tasarım while we must ignore them because OUR take might embarass conservatives? Is film izle that REALLY your position here?
October 5th, 2010 at 9:45 pmPeople are just nuts! People spout off their opinion and don’t even understand how the world works. Even taking a strong political stand that their side is right, not even understanding that the very example they are using is contrary to a previous stance. Here is a town that charges property taxes to their citizens to fund their fire department. That tax is not optional – so I’m not sure if you want to say that’s a right-wing stance or a left-wing stance…it’s just the way city municipalities work. These people that are not in the taxing jurisdiction, that probably voted not to be in the taxing jurisdiction, but want the services provided by the town…”I want what everyone else wants, but I don’t want to pay”. The city can’t afford to pay for expanding a fire department to cover a thousand homes if only 500 homes are paying the taxes. These people were probably warned a hundred times and just figured it couldn’t happen to them.
October 6th, 2010 at 1:23 amHere is the contact information for the Fire Chief and Mayors Family in South Fulton whose
Fire Fighters let this happen. Feel free to call and v0ice your disgust…
David Wilds
117 2nd St
South Fulton, TN 38257
(731) 479-0194
Here is a link to their website too with his picture…
Lori A Crocker
518 Orchard Dr
South Fulton, TN 38257
(731) 479-2152
Barbara Crocker
403 Grymes St
South Fulton, TN 38257
(731) 479-1642
http://www.cityofsouthfulton.org/fire.htm
October 6th, 2010 at 5:04 am“As ThinkProgress has noted, there are currently two competing visions of governance in the United States. One, the conservative vision, believes in the on-your-own society, and informs a policy agenda that primarily serves the well off and privileged sectors of the country. The other vision, the progressive one, believes in an American Dream that works for all people, regardless of their racial, religious, or economic background.”
The above statement is as wrong as the actions portrayed by the firefighters. What this government needs is less federal government interaction on individual rights and more local government authority, more direct democracy, and more civil liberties. The government sprawl on the individual in this nation is appalling. These laws do not serve to protect the people (nor do many of them draw any logical conclusions ex. an individual does not pay child support so the revoke his driving license-Okay, try to get to work to pay it now) but they serve to control the masses and suppress the individual. With the widespread use of the internet and national mail system a direct democracy (or something close) should be very attainable. Let localized governments decide if marijuana should be legal in their districts not federal or state governments. I know I’ve drifted off topic but the entire government and especially any person, website, or organization that thinks their single ideology is the only answer are fools. Its variety that’s the spice of life. . .
October 6th, 2010 at 6:20 amNRO: Krugman Gets Pay-to-Spray Wrong
October 6th, 2010 at 6:29 amhttp://www.nationalreview.com/corner/248849/krugman-gets-pay-spray-wrong-daniel-foster
^
Hot Air: Quotes of the day
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/05/quotes-of-the-day-473/
If God had wanted their house to stand, He wouldn’t have set it on fire, or He would have given them the money to pay for the fire service. No-one was hurt, which proves He was watching over them with His love. Praise be and peace to all.
October 6th, 2010 at 6:50 amThe 75 dollar charge is because Mr. Cranick lives outside the city limit but isn’t such basic services suppose to be part of the state taxes and property taxes? I maybe wrong but I had always thought that it was.
This raises the very interesting question of if things like the fire service, police officers, and other basic infrastructure aren’t covered in the state taxes, the sales tax you pay when you buy something, and the property taxes you have to pay each year then just where in the hell is that money going?
Furthermore, for those that like this idea they should really read history. This privatization of armies, police and fire service has been tried before. Not only did it not work very well when it was tried in this country during more modern times but it turned out very very badly for ancient Rome. Is this really the sorta poor business model we want to copy?
October 6th, 2010 at 8:33 amYou liberals are hypothesizing about things that didn’t happen. Let’s stick to the facts here, ok? PerplexedByIdiots personifies his name with his ignorance of who provides what service. He, and the rest of you “assumers,” would do well to get a better understanding of who government is, what it is, and who has what jurisdiction. And, above all, learn that it is the citizens that drive the government.
Many people in America CHOOSE to live outside the city limits (rural) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to avoid city taxes which means they forgo those city services. Some times these rural residents organize their own fire department, often times staffed with volunteers. In this case that didn’t exist, so in 1990 — 20 years ago — the city made available that service to rural residents for the petty cost of about $6 per month. Cheap! This guy figured he could skate on paying himself and he could leach off his neighbors…typical liberal thinking. He knew the service was available, and opted not to budget the money for it. I wouldn’t be surprised that he put that money toward a higher tier of satellite programming instead. It would be interesting to know if the guy even had fire insurance. My guess is that that money instead went to renting his DVR.
For all you who continue to hypothesize about what could have happened, how about you have a reality check. The city has limited resources, not the least of which is water. They had a truck with a tank of water…that’s all. Had they used their load of water on the free-loader’s house then they leave their subscribers vulnerable. What then?
Without the city offering this fire protection at about $6 a month, the rural residents would have NONE. It had been this way since 1990, and Cranick knew it. Another house burned down in 2008, and Cranick knew it. Yet, he CHOSE to go it alone.
Why is this concept of “decisions have consequences” so hard for liberals to grasp? Cranick CHOSE to go it alone. CHOICE…isn’t that what you liberals are about?
October 6th, 2010 at 9:51 amI’ve been in public safety for 15 years. I cannot comprehend how any firefighter can stand by while being fully equipped and responding to a call and not act to protect someone’s property if it is safe for them to do so. We take an oath to protect lives and property, regardless of who owns it, their social or economic status, race, taxpayer status, et al. We run mutual aid calls all the time in my agency, and we never refuse to respond on the basis that the caller is not a taxpayer in our jurisdiction. If we have the manpower and equipment to respond next door, why would we just stand there and allow someone next door’s property to burn?
The many agencies who responded on Sept 11th 2001 did so under mutual aid. They never bothered to stop and say “hey, we aren’t paid by the Port Authority. We should stand down” and many of my brother and sister first responders DIED protecting life and property. Have you republican asshats forgotten this already?
If this was YOUR property in question and a fire department responded from a nearby jurisdiction and didn’t do anything, would you have the same attitude? I think not.
and to those members of the South Fulton, TN FD, I am personally ASHAMED of you. I am glad our agencies surrounding mine respond regardless of who calls. I signed up to serve my fellow man, regardless of who they are, how much money they make, or who they pay taxes to. I am proud to serve and will continue to do so no matter what the call or where. Too bad you aren’t. You are in the wrong profession.
October 6th, 2010 at 10:34 amSo let’s think about what happens if the fire department puts out the fire anyway. Fire trucks, stations, equipment, training, etc. are not free. If they were, great – build one on every corner. But the city does what it can for the residents within its limits, and offers to cover those outside its limits by charging a small fee.
Now, that fee goes into things like buying trucks and putting up new stations.
So someone decides, hey my house will never burn down. I’ll save $75 a year by not paying them. But, the house does burn, and like everyone on here wants, the fire department puts it out anyway. What happens next year? Wow, Nobody pays the $75 fee! Why should they if they get the same service without it?
The fee becomes a joke, no money comes in, stations are closed, and the service is no longer offered. Yay, everyone loses.
Sure state taxes and property taxes go to services like the fire department, and in this case they do – for the residents of the city. That’s why we have city limits. If you choose to live outside the city limits, perhaps because you don’t like all the taxes and ordinances that come with living in the city, then go ahead; but you can’t have it both ways. You can’t expect to live in the middle of nowhere because taxes are low, and expect to get all the services of the residents paying the city tax.
Plain and simple – the city has an obligation to the residents of the city. For those outside the city, they had the opportunity to have fire protection. This guy foolishly refused that and is now suffering the consequences.
October 6th, 2010 at 10:38 amPlease read the Libertarian Party Platform (http://www.lp.org/platform) before passing judgement on the Libertarian philosophy.
“Government exists to protect the rights of every individual including life, liberty and property. Criminal laws should be limited to violation of the rights of others through force or fraud, or deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Individuals retain the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves. We support restitution of the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer.” (emphasis added)
The action taken by this fire department is clearly criminal negligence. (Not to mention a terrible way to run a public service.)
October 6th, 2010 at 10:57 amI don’t think the $75 should matter they charge us taxes to just walk out our door. Hell my water yea just water and garbage pick up 153 dollars this town don’t even have a gas station or grocery store but they are robbing our pockets. and cant even put out a fire NOW this is crazy what about the Firemen Oath Who follows that Not the South Fulton Fire Department and they are not volenteers. They are paid for there services.
Yes, Firemen too, have an oath:
“My duty is to protect those that I serve from whatever danger they may face; whether it be fire, demon, or angel; no matter the danger, I will protect the people to the best of my ability. I am but a servitor of the people; my duty is to those who I serve, and to no one else. I serve The People, without fear, without remorse, without fail. My Duty is to The People. By my Fireman’s Oath, I am bound to protect those who are in danger, those in times of need, those who I would serve.”
October 6th, 2010 at 10:59 amYou liberals are a hard bunch to figure out.
You are lividly PRO-CHOICE about the killing of defenseless unborn babies.
Cranick CHOSE NOT TO HAVE FIRE PROTECTION. Now you are appalled that a grown-up has to live with his CHOICE.
CHOICE has consequences…not just for unborn babies.
October 6th, 2010 at 11:07 amSouth Fulton must not be too strong on schooling either. Let’s use your own words with a few added for clarity:
“My duty is to protect those that I serve (taxpayers/subscribers) from whatever danger they may face; whether it be fire, demon, or angel; no matter the danger, I will protect the people to the best of my ability. I am but a servitor of the people; my duty is to those who I serve (taxpayers/subscribers), and to no one else. I serve The People, without fear, without remorse, without fail. My Duty is to The People. By my Fireman’s Oath, I am bound to protect those who are in danger, those in times of need, those who I would serve.”
Cranick — who does not live in your city, nor pay your city taxes — CHOSE to decline your good service. Thank you.
October 6th, 2010 at 11:49 am