This afternoon, Ted Olson — whose wife died in the September 11th attacks — distanced himself from other conservatives and told MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell that he did not oppose the building of a mosque near ground zero. “It may not make me popular with some people, but I think probably the President was right about this,” he began:
OLSON: I do believe that people of all religions have a right to build edifices or structures, places of religious worship or study where the community allows them to do it under zoning laws and that sort of thing. And that we don’t want to turn an act of hate against us by extremists into an act of intolerance for people of religious faith. And I don’t think it should be a political issue. It shouldn’t be a Republican or Democrat issue either. I believe Governor Christie from New Jersey said it as well, that this should not be in that political partisan marketplace.
Watch it:
Olson also discussed the recent court decision to stay Judge Walker’s decision overturning Proposition 8 and why marriage equality is “consistent with conservative values.”
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Ted Olson breaks from the GOP on NYC mosque: Obama ‘was right about this.’
– - Olson was excommunicated from the GOP when he sided with David Boies on the Prop. 8 mess in California. As someone whose wife was killed in the 9/11 attacks I’m sure matters not one bit to anyone disagreeing with him.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:41 pmFor every issue that comes down the pike, there’s a certain small percentage of Republicans who either didn’t get the memo, or can’t keep up the lie with a straight face. It’s interesting to watch.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:42 pmOf course President Obama is right….he follows the Constitution unlike the teabaggers.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:43 pmbut I think probably the President was right about this,”
“probably”???
like equal rights is probably inclusive of ALL people?
well, thanks for that…
August 18th, 2010 at 2:43 pmSome Repugs realize how dangerous and apppaling this is. Not only have they lost the Hispanic vote, but they are risking the Muslim vote as well. AND they are raising the Mulsims anger acroos the globe. Repugs NEVER think about the consequences of their words and actions. This will haunt them. Just like the Xenophobia they displayed during the immigration debate.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:43 pm– - O.T.
Where’s that jacka$$ sir.b.von.L? His “tough guy” hero Ted Nugent pleads no contest to deer baiting in CA. Suddenly that thing with Pee-Wee in the theater a few years back doesn’t look so weird anymore
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100818/ap_on_sp_ot/us_people_ted_nugent
August 18th, 2010 at 2:43 pmSo much for the claim that all 9/11 widow(er)s feeling that Muslims don’t have a right to build the Mosque.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:44 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
There is no such thing as a “democrat party”.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:46 pmHey, teabagger/troll idiots. Ted Olson is a REAL conservative.
Get a fcuking clue, will ya?
August 18th, 2010 at 2:48 pmBad@6, WTF? Baiting and killing a baby deer? How MANLY! Of course the troll thinks a guy like Nuggent is some kind of God. But I would consider Nuggent a souless, inhumane killer.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:49 pmFear, Ignorance, and Hatred is all that this country has left to offer its citizens, and citizens of the world.
To watch Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians, Gays, Native Americans, Dems, Liberals, etc. join forces with the hatemongers on this issue was “sickening” to say the least.
Hate is a powerful drug and it makes for some strange bedfellows
RIP
August 18th, 2010 at 2:49 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
“And I don’t think it should be a political issue.”
Ain’t no thinkin’ about it, Teddy. It shouldn’t.
But that’s where your party is at today: so far out there, rightwingers like you are now anathema to them.
Too bad for them. C’mon over to our side, Mr. Olson. We welcome thinking people here.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:52 pmBadmoodman says:
– – O.T.
Where’s that jacka$$ sir.b.von.L? His “tough guy” hero Ted Nugent pleads no contest to deer baiting in CA.
The nematode god Ted Nugent is a poacher — now there’s a shock.
Not.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:52 pmIf Ted is not careful he’s going to get banned from Fox “news”.
AIO
August 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pmI am getting pissed. I am watching MSM and they are talking about Brett Favre? Who gives a sh*t? What about the Gulf? Pakistan? I think I’ll have some wine….
August 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pmSad when a conservative making a simple common sense statement without histrionics is such a man bites dog event. And lest the trolls start in on Olson being insignificant or not a “true Republican” let’s not forget his unfortunate role in Bush v. Gore and his subsequent role as SG trying to defend Bush/Cheney’s unconstitutional Gitmo policy.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:54 pmDr Hussein Matt says:
Obama follows the Constitution
Wrong!
Wrong!
Wrong!
Obama is NOT following the Constitution. He is continuing the warrantless spying that Chimpy began, continuing the abuses, the military commissions kangaroo kourts.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:54 pmI haven’t heard that Obama has restored Habeus Corpus either.
The Obama even maintains that it can assassinate even Americans citizens without due process.
How is this following the Constitution?
Get out of my country traitor.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:55 pmVeteranFightingProgressives says:
This is NOT about the Constitutional right to build the Mosque.
So you’re saying that if you buy a building and want to open an exclusive Repiggie-only diaper-sniffing club, we can tell you NO. You simply cannot do it — even though you own the building.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:55 pmMarriage equality may be consistent with conservative values…but it’s not consistent with conservative homophobia.
Latency lives!
August 18th, 2010 at 2:55 pmI saw this interview. And Olson LIED. He claimed Obama made this a huge MSM story. When in fact, Faux news and Conservative Media made this big news. So, Olson can piss off.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:56 pmI’m with F**k the Army on Obama following the Constitution, although whoever changed the subject from the Ground Zero mosque to THAT is goin’ way OT…
August 18th, 2010 at 2:57 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
From the last thread:
cd (temp spokesman for satan) says:
“Zimzone says:
The entire Mosque issue is a planned diversion from the REAL issues:
The Economy
The Wars
The 99ers
Citizens United
BP
Massey
Unemployment
Offshore tax havens
Chinese labor
Immigration.”
This needed to be reposted.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:58 pmP.D. says:
I saw this interview. And Olson LIED. He claimed Obama made this a huge MSM story.
Yep — true conservative. :-D
August 18th, 2010 at 2:58 pm#13:
No, I haven’t lost my soft emotional spot…but I never use my soft emotional spot to chuck the Bill of Rights, either.
You got nothin’, and you probably even know that.
August 18th, 2010 at 2:59 pm… trooll asks:
What position in the GOP does Olson hold again?
paleolib reminds us:
… his unfortunate role in Bush v. Gore and his subsequent role as SG trying to defend Bush/Cheney’s unconstitutional Gitmo policy.
quite a substantial “position”, it turns out…
August 18th, 2010 at 2:59 pmThis is a guilt-by-association fallacy. The builders of this facility had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:01 pmthe Online Philosopher (sounds a lot like Onlooker) said:
He was the architecht of the Bush v. Gore election stealing in 2000. His reward was the Solicitor Generalship in The Chimp’s first term. Ted got wise and quit after one term when he saw the extraconstitutionality of the Chimp’s administration.
Oddly, Olson was also the Repug high-up who told David Brock that facts did not matter when it came to writing about the “crimes” of the Clintons; the Reich had to “keep up the pressure” on the Clintons by any means necessary until something was found that would “stick” to them. This is paraphrased from Brock’s book Blinded by the Right.
I concur that Olson’s opinion no longer matters on the Reich since he teamed with his Bush v. Gore opponent to challenge the validity of a ban on gay marriage.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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lokidog said:
We don’t need a slimeball like Ted Olson.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:06 pmPhoneySoldier;
August 18th, 2010 at 3:06 pmhaven’t you some wings to pull off butterflys?
FOAD tool!
OP said:
Olson is the one voice in this debate who actually suffered a close personal loss on 9/11. Everyone else is just making hay on the bodies of 3,000 Americans.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pmFake Veteran, projection from the dumphukkk that has no life other than making a j@kkk@ss of herself on a site where she’s not welcome? day after day? Shokkker!
August 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pmOlsen is certainly not love with the Repubs. First, Olson arguing against Proposition 8 and now agreeing with Obama’s comment of the NYC mosque. Certainly, the Repubs would like for him to go away. Good him for speaking out.
OT Today is August 18. Why is August 18 a significance in history?
“The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation”
19th Amendment—August 18, 1920
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
August 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pmAlways interesting to see how quickly the right will throw their own under the bus if they stray from the talking points.
Olson is a person who actually has real skin in this game (unlike Palin, Gingrich, Hannity, O’Reilly, Huckabee).
August 18th, 2010 at 3:09 pmEvery now and then we see an aberrant member of the GOP — Olson is one — this isn’t the first time he was a reasonable voice speaking against his party’s very narrow and anti-American views.
With GOP members like Olson, one might have hope that disagreements could be resolved with discussion, but with the likes of the GOP today, I don’t see that happening any time soon.
Too bad Obama tried for 18 months to get the GOP to sit down and honestly discuss issues with him — they vowed:
August 18th, 2010 at 3:09 pmno way, no how, not on the life of America.
They would see America become unrecognizable and its people starving in the streets before they would honestly discuss anything. It was always my way or or not at all.
Their compromise is: you change, and do it my way — and we may or may not sign on to it.
@32, LOL! You want my attention, huh? And I am not here day after day. You see, I have a life. And what do you care what I have to say about a certain troll? Unless YOU are sir.b.ullshit.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:09 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
What would happen if a mostly white neighborhood objected to a black family moving in nine years after a violent gang of young black men terrorized the neighborhood?
My guess is that most of the people in the neighborhood wouldn’t think anything of it. And even if some people did equate the black family moving in with the gang of thugs, they would be quickly marginalized as bigots. They certainly wouldn’t receive sympathy from a good portion of the country, and very, very few people would be saying that the black family “should be sensitive to the feelings” of the white residents and move somewhere else.
So why in the world is the “sensitivity” of bigots being given any weight whatsoever in this faux debate?
Special note: One could use any racial/ethnic/religious groups here instead of “black” and “white”. I only chose those for this illustration because most people can understand the majority/minority dynamics here.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:10 pm@32
VD RfS Reported for being a pansy ass chicken shit coward who hates our military so much has to lie in its name.
you are no VETERAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
go piss off piss ant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
scum
August 18th, 2010 at 3:11 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The gop Dumbing down America one repuke at a time…
August 18th, 2010 at 3:11 pmI see the fake veteran ran off. Typical. He can’t win an argument, so he splits.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pmWhere was the outrage when churches were being built near “ground zero” of the Oklahoma City bombing?
The idiot who detonated the bomb that killed hundreds was a self professed anti-government (c)hristian, who even requested a pre-requiem and a Catholic chaplain to preside over him during his execution.
Where was the outrage???
August 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pmVeteranFightingProgressives says:
This is about the common sense sensitivity to the victims families of 9/11.
There’s one of them at the article up top who says he has no problem with it. Why aren’t you being sensitive to him? And who asked you to be “sensitive” on somebody else’s behalf in the first place?
If right wingers gave a flying fcuk about 9/11, they would have approved health care for 9/11 first responders. Your concern for the actual issue is underwhelming.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pmlongredzillions says:
The issue has never been, nor is it now, about whether there is a RIGHT.
Welcome to America.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:13 pm@45, WTF are you talking about????! The Muslims have every RIGHT to build their Center on private property. Why can’t these idiots face the facts?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:13 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
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OP says:
By your argument, most of the Repiggies voicing off in this debate have no business doing so either.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:15 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
The builders of this center HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. It’s morally reprehensible to suggest any link. If there is no link, then there is no reason why they shouldn’t proceed with building this facility.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:17 pmlongredzillions says:
The issue has never been, nor is it now, about whether there is a RIGHT.
I agree. It’s about fear and bigotry.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:17 pmLongredstupid said:
Most Americans are clueless about Israel’s abusive and terroristic treatment of Palestineans too. What’s your point?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:17 pmFake Vet, I thought you were leaving? By the way, the only one who isn’t logical, is you. The Repugs are backing off on this issue. Legally, they have nothing to stand on.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:17 pm@52
LOL at you coward!!!!!!!1
if your brains were fuel you would not have enough fuel to power a piss ants motorcycle to do a figure 8 inside a cheerios hole.
lol and i do not mean no disrespect to piss ants!!!!!
August 18th, 2010 at 3:18 pmPhoneyVeteran:
you are an insult to bona fide’ veterans like myself.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:20 pmchange your name to Limpdick’s Butthole Surfer
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
You do realize, of course, that these radicals who flew the planes and murdered thousands, were not true followers of the Qu’ran!
Hell, they even visited a strip club and drank alcohol the night before that fateful day, both of which are strictly forbidden.
So to link the billions of Muslims around the world to the few radicals is just as asinine as me linking Christians around the world to the Oklahoma City bomber or the terrorist Eric Randolph!
August 18th, 2010 at 3:22 pmOne of the developers said America was an accessory to
9-11.
Liar!
August 18th, 2010 at 3:24 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
And I bet the trolls think the jack-ass who flew his plane into the building which killed an IRS employee is some kind of folk hero instead of the terrorist he really was.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:24 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
This is about the common sense sensitivity to the victims families of 9/11.
I’m sure that the right wing will jump right to the defense of the people protesting the next highway that will be build on sacred tribal lands, out of common sense sensitivity to the victims of Manifest Destiny…. right?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:25 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@68, ‘I’m not your Mom’????? WTF is that supposed to mean?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:26 pmIt is clearly high time for even Republicans to support the law, rational discourse and the Constitution as it stands — and not in some phony la-la land version of an ‘original’ document they nevertheless want to excise radically.
Good for Ted Olson.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:26 pmlongredzillions says:
Nothing. Most American minority groups resoundingly condemn terrorism. Muslims, generally, do not: some out of sympathy for the terrorists, some out of intimidation by them, and some out of apathy.
Therein lies one difference.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:27 pm–
You might want to try a little experiment sometime: point out to a devout Christian that the Hutaree, or the Branch Davidians, or some other group with violent tendencies were Christians. The nearly certain result will be a rebuttal that those people were radical fringe fruitcakes who were not at all representative of Christianity. You’ll probably also be told not to judge Christians by the acts of a few nut cases who call themselves Christians. These same Christians however have no problem condemning every member of the Islamic faith (about 1.50 billion people or roughly one-fifth of the world population) because of the horrific acts of a few thousand nut jobs like Osama bin Laden for example.
longredzillions says:
…consider the sensitivities of the 9-11 victim families and New Yorkers. Please. Don’t be thick.
This posted on a thread where a family member of a 9/11 victim is saying he’s fine with the Islamic center being built in that spot.
Talk about THICK…
August 18th, 2010 at 3:27 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
@70, He was a terrorist who used his plane to kill innocent people. The fact he hated the IRS is irrelevant. He was a terrorist, plain and simple. And if he were of a darker color, MSM would have called him a terrorist.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:28 pm@66
F-CK Off you lairing pond scum
you are a coward and you are welcome to be free because of real vets…
so we will wait for your thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! and apology as well.
i know you can not prove your service cause you had none along with the other cowards…
so have a shitty day and the rest of your scummy life.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:28 pmLongredstupid said:
Have you or any of your ilk condemned Israel for slaughtering Palestineans, walling them off in a ghetto (like the Jews were walled off in Eastern Europe in WWII) with no opportunity for economic success or freedom of movement, running over protestors with bulldozers, or indiscriminately firing ordinance into neighborhoods occupied by noncombatants? Have you or any of your ilk given one whit of consideration to the sensibilities of Palestineans whose family members have been indiscriminately killed by the IDF over the years? Of course not.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:28 pmP.D. says:
@68, ‘I’m not your Mom’????? WTF is that supposed to mean?
This moronic troll likes to insinuate that because we have no respect for HIM/IT, then the same must be true for our mothers.
The troll is a walking logical fallacy.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:29 pmZooey says:
Talk about THICK…
You’re too kind.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:29 pmI was thinking about posting something that rhymes with “Thick”, but preceded by “being a…”
The Media is making a big story of the Persident’s standing with the Constitution on this issue by criticising the president,even some went further to suggest that the President should apologize.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:30 pmFor what..?
For saying the truth…!
Longredstupid said:
Really? I’ve got some oceanfront property you may be interested in…in Tennessee.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:31 pmBadmoodman says:
Where’s that jacka$$ sir.b.von.L? His “tough guy” hero Ted Nugent pleads no contest to deer baiting in CA…
Cut off his whang dang doodle, perhaps? Nugent is a pansy with a loud voice & a loud guitar, but master of neither.
Me big. Me tough. Me strong. Me shoot Bambi.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:31 pmLooks like things are changing in the US. If a group of people claim insensitivity, it over rides law. So the next time a group of environmentalists protest a coal mine or an oil well, they win! So, how long will it take us to gather a group of citizens who feel the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are insensitive to our beliefs and they must be ended right now!?
And while we are at it, can we deport skinheads, neonazis and any other group that hates America?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:32 pmZooey@79, LOL! They need serious therapy.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:32 pmpoor old dummies.
now all they’ve got left are glenda, billo, and rush.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:32 pmlongredzillions says:
One of the developers said America was an accessory to 9-11.
Glenn Beck is a Park51 developer?
.
longredzillions says:
Another link is that Muslim terrorists struck on 9-11 and the development is located there.
It’s two Manhattan blocks away.
.
longredzillions says:
Another link is cultural: that Muslims build Islamic monuments at places they consider “conquered”.
Cite a source for this. I can think of no examples other than possibly the Dome of the Rock on Temple Mount. But one is not a trend.
.
longredzillions says:
Another link is the failure of the Muslim developers to condemn the 9-11 murderers
Link:
- Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf
August 18th, 2010 at 3:33 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Zooey (I am Patsy) says:
longredzillions says:
…consider the sensitivities of the 9-11 victim families and New Yorkers. Please. Don’t be thick.
This posted on a thread where a family member of a 9/11 victim is saying he’s fine with the Islamic center being built in that spot.
Talk about THICK…
Yeah. So, they’ve conceded the point about rights, by saying this ins’t about rights. They’ve conceded that there is no connection to 9/11 by the builders (no link, and immediate resorted to childish insults when called out on that). They can no longer hide behind the families when the families are split on the issue, and one of the more famous family members is speaking out in favor of it being built.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:33 pmI know he was a treasonous teabagger. You teabaggers love right-wing domestic terrorists.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:33 pmshouldn’t take long for the screechmonkey crowd to drown out Ted Olson.
zxbe @ 57, it’s not simply that they didn’t have anything to do with 9/11 – they’re almost diametrically opposed, within Islam, to the AlQaeda/Salafist/Wahabi-crazy crowd. My understanding is that the Cordoba Initiative folks are Sufis, and if there is anyone within Islam that the A/S/W-c types think are more heretical than the various Shii groups, it’s the Sufis.
Of course, maybe that explains the actual reason for the screaming heeby-jeeby sky-is-falling BS coming out of our conservatives and righties. After all, AlQaeda and that bunch are conservative reactionary extremists within Islam, while the Sufis tend more toward the liberal to moderate side, and I’m sure that our redneck reactionaries find Islamic moderates and liberals even more distasteful than us. Our ‘neck buddies would get along fine if they met up with Osama bin Forgotten in some tavern and sat down for a brewski with him, if they didn’t recognize him (apart from the fact that ObF probably wouldn’t approve of brewski partaking).
August 18th, 2010 at 3:34 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
blogbob,
August 18th, 2010 at 3:34 pmThe only thing that I can think of that comes close to the US government protecting sacred land is the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act. And that really only covers ancient artifacts/human remains more than it does land.
longredzillions says:
Sacred tribal lands are protected by law.
LOL.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:35 pmhey lrz,
why did you change your name?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:35 pmDRxJ (FCK Enbridge Energy!) says:
You’re too kind.
I was thinking about posting something that rhymes with “Thick”, but preceded by “being a…”
You know I’m too much of a lady to write something like that.
Heh.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:35 pmHoodathunk(sponsored by Free Speech for Fish) says:
Looks like things are changing in the US. If a group of people claim insensitivity, it over rides law. So the next time a group of environmentalists protest a coal mine or an oil well, they win! So, how long will it take us to gather a group of citizens who feel the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are insensitive to our beliefs and they must be ended right now!?
Am I the only one who finds it truly bizarre that it’s suddenly the “conservatives” who are all about feelings? For years, they’ve been throwing that accusation against liberals — that it’s all about “feelings” with them, and not logic or not the Constitution. Suddenly, it’s all about being insensitive? Are you kidding me?
Admit it, “conservatives”, it’s all about bigotry. Period.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pmTo say that we have to respect the feelings of the 9/11 families who oppose building Park51 is to say we must respect intolerance and that we must disregard our American values. Not all 9/11 family members oppose the mosque, just the ones who think every Muslim is to blame for what happened. And since those people are clearly wrong (to blame all Muslims), why do we have to respect their wishes? I do not, and will never, respect bigotry and intolerance.
And if the sensibilities of others who might be offended is the most important thing, then Glenn Beck must change the date or location of his Lincoln Memorial rally. It is disrespectful to those who fought in the Civil Rights Movement.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pmthat ten gallon tinfoil stetson looks real snazzy, lrz.
where’d you get it?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pmLook! The troll of the day is nearly voted down on a number of posts. It’s so much nicer not to have to step over his crap.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:37 pmVirtual Pebble (The Revolution will NOT be Televised) says:
shouldn’t take long for the screechmonkey crowd to drown out Ted Olson.
zxbe @ 57, it’s not simply that they didn’t have anything to do with 9/11 – they’re almost diametrically opposed, within Islam, to the AlQaeda/Salafist/Wahabi-crazy crowd. My understanding is that the Cordoba Initiative folks are Sufis, and if there is anyone within Islam that the A/S/W-c types think are more heretical than the various Shii groups, it’s the Sufis.
The right never let facts get in the way of their hysterics.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:38 pmSacred tribal lands are protected by law.
Whew! I am certainly glad no Native American has ever been buried anywhere in the US, particularly on Manhattan.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:38 pmImam Feisal Abdul Raif was careful not to say that he considered 9-11 an act of terror.
Actually, he specifically referred to them as “crimes”, which is exactly what they were. And that is exactly how they should have been treated – as crimes.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:38 pmWow!
August 18th, 2010 at 3:38 pm#64 and #48 must have stung like a mutha!
I see that the antagonists are side stepping those topics and purposely avoiding a reasonable debate with me regarding them.
What, hit too close to the “hypocrisy” home???
This comment has been voted down. Click to read.
bizarrobrain (brought to you by The Citadel of Satanic Kitten Worship and Tidy Cat) says:
This sensitivity is a fairly recent phenomenon. In the eastern US there are probably thousands of Native American sacred tribal lands that were plowed under and developed into strip malls years ago.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:39 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
Hey lrb, why does Glenn Beck blame America for 9-11?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:40 pmFake Veteran, Now you are mimicing? That’s a sbad as ‘I know you are, but what am I?’ Grow up.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:40 pmVeteranFightingProgressives,
Just out of curiosity, are you a white male? You need not tell me any more about yourself than to truthfully answer that question: Are you a white male?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:41 pmVFP = rockin’ the pee wee to victor-ee.
and calling for a government takeover of private property.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:42 pmPhoneyVeteran;
I’ll show you my VA card when you show us your birth certificate.
Is that fair or what?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:43 pmSacred tribal lands? I suppose you don’t mean the ones Andy Jackson hijacked when he moved the 5 Civilized Tribes down the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma?
I wonder what baggers consider sacred tribal lands? The local tavern? The fair grounds where they hold the tractor pulls? Talladega?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:43 pm107, when / where did you serve & what was your mos?
Be careful when calling yourself a veteran around here…not all liberals are what you seem to think they are.
I make a rule of not talking to trolls, but when one puts down us Vets, I make an exception.
Again…when, where, mos…
We’re waiting…
August 18th, 2010 at 3:45 pmHoodathunk(sponsored by Free Speech for Fish) says:
Sacred tribal lands are protected by law.
Whew! I am certainly glad no Native American has ever been buried anywhere in the US, particularly on Manhattan.
–
Well except for the Manhattoes tribe who helped early Dutch settlers to the area get started in the fur trade in exchange for rum and beads and gewgaws.
And dammit, now I have the image of a conservative tampering with native American remains then later getting sucked into their TV like in Poltergeist.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:45 pmHey, the Roberts Court decided that the state may condemn land so that a developer can get rid of a holdout landowner to start a project. What’s to stop the Repiggies from condmening Park51 and giving it to Walmart?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:45 pmHoodathunk(sponsored by Free Speech for Fish) says:
Looks like things are changing in the US. If a group of people claim insensitivity, it over rides law.
Good point. It seems to me I’ve heard a lot of noise over the recent years about liberals teaching children to be too ’sensitive’, and now the right is howling about insensitivity! Only when it suits them of course.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:47 pmbizarro, I think Faux bought the rights to that Poltergeist technology.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:47 pmStill waiting, fakeveteran, still waiting…
August 18th, 2010 at 3:48 pmLongSTUPID is a LIAR. Caught in another lie but he wont care. He gets sheer joy from telling lies. Decent human beings are embarassed to be LIARS but not LongSTUPID he revels in the PROVEN FACT he is a LIAR. No one takes anything he says seriously since he is, you know, a LIAR but he keeps coming back to spew more lies. LongSTUPID is a waste of functional organs
August 18th, 2010 at 3:49 pmThis comment has been voted down. Click to read.
blogbob says:
August 18th, 2010 at 3:49 pmThis sensitivity is a fairly recent phenomenon. In the eastern US there are probably thousands of Native American sacred tribal lands that were plowed under and developed into strip malls years ago.
–
I wouldn’t doubt it. For example in San Leandro about a week ago, construction workers found native American remains as they began work on I believe it was either a health-insurance office or a clinic.
Hoodathunk(sponsored by Free Speech for Fish) says:
August 18th, 2010 at 3:50 pmbizarro, I think Faux bought the rights to that Poltergeist technology.
–
Apparently they’ve perfected it. It doesn’t suck the viewer into the TV, it just sucks in the viewer’s brains.
Don’t worry, eventually Fake(Jake)veteran will copy and paste someone else’s war record from a soldier’s blog, and claim it as his own.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:51 pmCOWARD!
And I am still trying to figure out why the white wingers are getting all wound up about something that happened 9 years ago. In their world isn’t that like somewhere between Julius Caesar and Chris Columbus? I mean, we are talking ancient history. /snark
August 18th, 2010 at 3:51 pmSoldierSTUPID
I know this is a foriegn concept for you since you KNOW you are far too stupid to think for yourself but that is exactly what most liberals do. Think for ourselves. We know that unless Rush told you to think it then you dont but we make up our own minds. You of course are as incapable of higher brain function as an ice cube is but that is YOUR burden to bear. You are stupid brainwashed and pathetic but that doesnt mean you should judge us by YOUR standards. We are smarter than you. Carpet lice are smarter than you. We are better than you what with our sense of decency and our humanity two other things as foriegn to you as Urdu. Go FCUK yourself punk. You are just too stupid to be in an adult conversation
August 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pmPhoneyVeteran
A legendary hero in his own mind.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pmLocal Muslims want to build a community center that will have cooking classes and a basketball court…
Boy, those conservatives sure know how to bring up issues of national importance don’t they?
Just think. We’re less than six months away from hearing the same people prattle on about “The War on Christmas”!
I can’t wait!
August 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pmzimzone
sorry but you will have to wait until Rush tells him what to think about that before he can venture an answer.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pmDRxJ (FCK Enbridge Energy!) says:
August 18th, 2010 at 3:54 pmDon’t worry, eventually Fake(Jake)veteran will copy and paste someone else’s war record from a soldier’s blog, and claim it as his own.
COWARD!
–
There is a slim chance that our trolls who claim to have been soldiers could have been in the marines. Of course they’re the Gomer Pyle’s (see Full Metal Jacket) of the marine corps: stupid, lazy, cowardly, etc.
Ted is correct. There is no question Obama was right about this. None whatsoever. Neither is there any real argument that the rightwing has gone insane. It would be nice to have a sane opposition party but thats just how it goes I guess
August 18th, 2010 at 3:55 pm“Feelings, wo-o-o feelings,
wo-o-o, feelings again in my arms.
Feelings…”
Sniff, sniff, sob, yes, I am a Republican and a bagger and I feel deeply. I feel we have to ignore the Constitution so I don’t have to cry again. I feel I have to support my party that voted against supporting the 9/11 responders.
Oh geez, so many feelings.
“Feelings, wo-o-o feelings,
August 18th, 2010 at 4:00 pmwo-o-o, feelings again in my arms.
Feelings…”
VeteranFightingProgressives says:
Where do you learn this type of thinking? Is it the Far-Left Liberal Perfessors spewing this garbage into the minds full of mush or were these Progressives dropped on their heads when they were babies?
I take your ad-hominem response to say that this doesn’t exist or isn’t happening?
.
Hoodathunk(sponsored by Free Speech for Fish) says:
And I am still trying to figure out why the white wingers are getting all wound up about something that happened 9 years ago. In their world isn’t that like somewhere between Julius Caesar and Chris Columbus? I mean, we are talking ancient history. /snark
I thought they had given up on “hallowed 9/11″ towards the end of Bush’s term when they started arguing to pull out of Afghanistan, and definitely when they voted against 9/11 first responder health care. It seems they only care about 9/11 when they can use it to foment bigotry against groups of people.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:00 pmgood on you olson.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:01 pmThis is about the common sense sensitivity to the victims families of 9/11.
thats not a very good argument.
its like saying because some people owned slaves in the past [my family never did] that i am responsible for slavery.
show me where raufs group attacked the wtc.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:04 pmWhite wingers are pathetic, but those pretending to be Veterans are deplorable.
Still waiting, vfp, still waiting…
August 18th, 2010 at 4:05 pmyour basically accusing people who had nothing to do with 911 about being insensitive because they pray to the same god??
August 18th, 2010 at 4:06 pmVeteranFightingProgressives says:
August 18th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Bad analogy! Doesn’t equate!
Another example of the twisted logic of a Progressive.
longredzillions says
August 18th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Most American minority groups resoundingly condemn terrorism. Muslims, generally, do not.
____________________________________________________________________________
Let’s see — one troll claims that my analogy is “bad” without explaining why. Another troll attempts to explain the difference by offering the FALSE AND DEBUNKED meme that American Muslims don’t condemn terrorism.
*facepalm*
Attempting to explain anything to trolls is like casting pearls before swine.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:09 pmin the troll world generalizing and guilt by association reign supreme.
if a christian shoots an abortion doctor, and therefore becomes a murderer am i to accuse all christians of being doctor killers?
if a follower judaism commits a crime against a christian am i to believe that all judaists are criminals?
if an extremist muslim attacks the wtc am i to believe that all muslims are terrorists?
if an atheist shoots a jewish person am i to believe that all atheists are all crazed gun toters?
hitler used this method of grouping and applying guilt to others. persecuted them. we shouldnt go down this muddy road of persecuting one another.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:16 pmand they always excuse violent acts by their fringe as exceptions to the rule…but all acts by our fringe are indicative of the whole left…go figure…
August 18th, 2010 at 4:17 pmand that politicians, pundits and individuals of differing ideologies are using this method of guilt by association for election purposes, ratings or whatever, and agendas is downright tragic and disturbing.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:19 pmEVERY TIME Ms. Greenspan opens her clearly biased mouth on some useless and contrived issue (like this one) she shows her absolute bias toward being a full tilt republican hard nose…
She is absolutely awful… Why doesn’t she just go to work for Cluster-Fox and be done with it…LEAVE us alone !!!
August 18th, 2010 at 4:35 pmXisithrus, that’s a great point…I admit that when I troll bash I am guilty as well…
August 18th, 2010 at 4:36 pmlongredherring
Sacred tribal lands are protected by law.
-
Right. Explain that to the Navajo and Hopi who both consider what we call the San Francisco Peaks near Flagstaff AZ to be hallowed ground. Explain why a ski resort is sanctioned by the USFS on Mount Humphreys. Explain why reclaimed sewage water from Flagstaff is used by the ski resort for snowmaking despite vehement objections from the two tribes. Explain why mining is permitted, over the objection of the tribes, for the type of lava used only in the manufacture of Stone-washed blue jeans. Explain why there are no restrictions that prevent white folks from scattering the ashes of deceased family members from the summit of Humphreys, in spite of the strong objection of both tribes.
As usual, you have NO IDEA about which you speak. Nothing but lies, nothing but bullshit. You have no respect for anything or anyone worthwhile, only for burgeoning American Fascism. You are a true and total loser.
QED.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:46 pmSometimes right wingers ask “where are the moderate Muslims who want openness and engagement instead of fear and terror?” Well, here they are. The Cordoba Initiative is exactly what people are thinking about when they’re imagining a group of Muslims who want to do the opposite of terrorism. And yet when they show up, the right wing vilifies them anyways.
Which means that it is simply not possible for Muslims to please wingnuts no matter what they do. They hate Islam, and everybody who follows it regardless of any facts of the matter. They are religious bigots, and nothing more. Their opinion should be given no weight whatsoever.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:46 pmVeteranFightingProgressives says:
My common sense learning and background only comes up with one formula – GIGO – (Garbage In, Garbage Out!)
As you so aptly demonstrate for us every chance you get.
Thanks, GIGO.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:49 pmI am surprised that Mr. Olson does not have the same ethics and principles as backup has on this question. A person with his legal and academic background should be able to present a better case then this. This is not about bumper stickers nor platitudes. This about war. The best way to win that war is to build a church, a synagogue and a mosque side by side. (Not on top of each other, that could cause friction.) That’s the kind of reaching out we need right now from the Muslim community. This is an example of Mr. Olson representing the pork lobby instead of the best interests of the community. He, as an attorney, should know better. If he does not improve his position on this matter, HIS WORDS WILL RING HOLLOW.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:52 pmGood for Ted Olson, a republican with common sense which this Country needs more of. We are either a Nation that works for all or none.
August 18th, 2010 at 4:52 pmif a bbq grill is in a museum then its not going to be cooking pork but on display for people to view. besides that muslims do eat beef.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sal. your common sense isnt showing. you consider americans with a different ideology than you enemies when america is a melting pot of people from nany different places and customs. yoiur ideology seems to be that you fear differing ideologies. thats not what the home of the brave and free should be about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xisithrus, that’s a great point…I admit that when I troll bash I am guilty as well… -=usckitty=-
sometimes i do it as well but usually only when the detractor does it first but more as a way to show them how un-common sensical it is. =]
August 18th, 2010 at 5:13 pmbackup says
August 18th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
__________________________________________________________________________
“What if the American Pork lobby decides it wants to build a national barbeque museum next to the Muslim community center.”
– As long as this museum doesn’t violate zoning laws in the area, there shouldn’t be a problem.
“The problem is that it will obviously be offensive to the Muslims that want to worship at the center.”
– Are you kidding? American Muslims live in a country where barbecue, pepperoni pizza, and bacon and eggs are considered staples of the diet. In my town, there are mosques located in strip malls where other tenants include not only barbecue joints, but liquor stores and drinking establishments (alcohol is also forbidden in Islam). Trust me — American Muslims are used to this, and they accept the way other Americans live. If there was a barbecue museum next door to their community center, they’d probably even go give it a visit. They just wouldn’t partake of any of the free samples. You see — it’s not that Muslims think pork is evil, they just believe pork is unclean and they don’t eat it. They don’t regard it as scary or offensive — as long as somebody isn’t shoving pork in their face in a rude and belligerent manner as an obvious display of contempt.
“If those Muslims complained about the proposal, should those objections also be dismissed?”
August 18th, 2010 at 5:16 pm– Yes, in the highly unlikely event those Muslims complained about an enterprise moving in next door that was legal, within zoning laws, and presented no threat to the neighborhood, their objections should be dismissed. Next question?
Absolutely dead on Miss Molly.
August 18th, 2010 at 5:24 pmTodd
No this isnt about war. War is a million miles away from what this is about. Terrorists commited a horrific act in New York. Islam did not. Islam has no reason to be punished for what Osama Ben Laden did. This community center/Mosque is already what it is REALLY about. Showing that religious tolerance is one of the things America is about. There is NOT ONE SINGLE argument that makes sense from the right as to why the Cordoba House should not be built. Wingnuts keep saying we should take the feelings of those against it seriously. IF you could show it was based no anything but bigotry that MIGHT be a cogent argument. Since there IS no issue here not based on bigoty. Since Islam is NOT to blame for 9/11 and every REASONABLE person not acting out of bigotry knows it, there is no such argument. We didnt take racists sensativities into account and allow Jim Crow or miscegenation laws to continue. There is no reasoned argument as to why this should be a problem at all.
August 18th, 2010 at 5:29 pmmissmolly, have you ever eaten pork in front of a group of Muslims? Have you ever walked your dog in around a cackle of Muslims? Have you ever sang before an audience of Muslims? Are you aware of how these and so many other western behaviors and customs are so deeply, deeply offensive to them? Until we can reach out to them (or more importantly until they reach out to us) then we can’t really reach any kind of peaceful coexistence. Nor should we try. Wouldn’t you agree that the best course for the Muslims who want to build Park 51 would be to convert their current plans into a plan for a Church/Synagogue/Mosque tri-plex as backup has so sagely suggested?
August 18th, 2010 at 5:37 pm9/11 Victim’s Mother Supports Islamic Center
August 18th, 2010 at 5:41 pmTalat Hamdani lost her son, Salman, in the September 11 terrorist attacks. He was a NYPD cadet and an EMT. Hamdani supports the construction of an Islamic center near ground zero, saying not all muslims are terrorists. http://www.newslook.com/videos/242426-9-11-victim-s-mother-supports-islamic-center?autoplay=true
Todd
You have it EXACTLY wrong. I wouldnt think twice about eating pork in front of a Muslim IF I ate pork which I dont. They have no reason to expect US to change for their benifit or pretend that WE accept their strictures. That wouldnt be reaching out. That wouldnt be showing respect. As MissMolly said they LIVE in this culture. They see pizza huts and BBQ shacks. They are in malls where those thing exist. They have no expectation that they should disappear because THEY do not indulge. This is STILL a non sequitur. The issue only EXISTS if you want to blame ISLAM for 9/11. THAT is unreasonable. Islam EXISTS. No one has a RIGHT to pretend it doesnt by telling them well you are too close to a place where a terrorist from your religion did a horrific thing. We want to PRETEND there is no Islam. That would be like telling a Christian Church that since Jim Jones caused 900 people to commit suicide they should not build a Christian church or school close to where there was an unfortunate suicide.
August 18th, 2010 at 5:44 pmTodd Lincoln says:
Wouldn’t you agree that the best course for the Muslims who want to build Park 51 would be to convert their current plans into a plan for a Church/Synagogue/Mosque tri-plex as backup has so sagely suggested?
Yeah, right, try to convince me that you aren’t backup posting under another name.
And, no, it would not be a good idea. In fact, it would be a stupid idea because it would be caving in to ignorance and bigotry. We were not attacked by a Religion. We had several US Cities fall victim to the criminal acts of madmen. Why do people insist in framing this as a “war”? Because the people who committed these crimes did? Are we going to do everything the way they suggest?
August 18th, 2010 at 7:01 pmTodd Lincoln says:
a cackle of Muslims
A what now?
.
Todd Lincoln says:
Wouldn’t you agree that the best course for the Muslims who want to build Park 51 would be to convert their current plans into a plan for a Church/Synagogue/Mosque tri-plex as backup has so sagely suggested?
No.
The best course would be to ignore your whiny asses.
You’ve already been appeased more than enough. We’re drawing the line.
August 18th, 2010 at 7:19 pmWhy don’t you bigots direct your comments at me directly? Go ahead.
I am a Muslim and I condemn terrorism. (I have said this 59 billion times, and I’ll leave you a voicemail on your phone saying it if you want to send me your phone number.)
My entire family and every single Muslim person I know (and trust me, I know more of them than you do) all condemn terrorism and the acts of 9/11. We do not consider those who perpetrated the attacks to be Muslim or following Islam in any way.
My brother and my uncle own dogs.
I sometimes go to bars at the invitation of non-Muslim friends. I do not lecture them that they should not drink, and they do not laugh at me for ordering club sodas all night.
I have been to a pork barbecue (there are many in my state), and I just eat some of the side dishes that don’t contain pork fat.
I sometimes go to services at churches and synagogues to learn more about other religions. Sometimes my friends and acquaintances who have the same curiosity come to my mosque.
My inlaws were Christians, and I went to their home for Easter and Christmas to celebrate with them. In turn, they wished me a happy Eid when it was my holiday.
There are plenty of people in the world who can live together peacefully. If you can’t do it, you’re not trying. Only when you yourself make that effort will you find others who are making the effort too.
August 18th, 2010 at 7:32 pmTodd Lincoln says
August 18th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
missmolly, have you ever eaten pork in front of a group of Muslims? Have you ever walked your dog in around a cackle of Muslims? Have you ever sang before an audience of Muslims? Are you aware of how these and so many other western behaviors and customs are so deeply, deeply offensive to them?
_____________________________________________________________________________
Actually, I HAVE eaten pork in front of a group of Muslims. I haven’t walked my dog around Muslims only because I don’t have a dog, but one of the people in my Muslim and non-Muslim social circle has two dogs, and our Muslim friends do visit her home (she doesn’t bring her dogs to their homes, though). While the opportunity to sing in front of an audience of Muslims hasn’t presented itself, Muslims have attended performances of the choir I sing in.
I should give some disclosure here. My roommate (and friend) is Muslim. I am Christian. She prays five times a day, fasts during Ramadan, and will not eat pork or consume alcohol. Through her, I have met most of her family (wonderful people), and many of her Muslim friends. They have become my friends. She has also met my non-Muslim family and my non-Muslim friends, which have become her friends. I attend events at her mosque. She has come to my church. Through our friendship, we have gotten to know each other’s religion and culture, and that has been a mutual benefit.
You seem to think of Muslims — particularly American Muslims — as being somewhat isolationist, unwilling to assimilate with the rest of society because it is so “deeply, deeply offensive” to them. You’re wrong. The key word here is “American”. You see Muslims as somehow “not American” — even though they are citizens. While most of the Muslims I socialize with were born in this country, some are not. And many of those who were have parents who immigrated here. Muslims here don’t have a problem with American culture, and they accept it. Why in the world would they come to a place that was “deeply, deeply offensive” to them?
You speak as if you know something about American Muslims, and it’s painfully obvious you know nothing. I recommend you find the mosque in your town (most of them have websites, you can Google for it), and watch to see when they next have an open house as an outreach to their community (yes — mosques DO work hard at community outreach!). Then attend it. Nobody’s going to try to convert you, but you’ll learn something.
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Scary Brown Chick says:
Thanks for your post…
it seems though that the right-wing always moves the goalposts when it comes to Muslims…Soon they’ll demand that you go over there and personally stop a terrorist attack to prove your bona fides…and if someone did, then they would demand even more…
August 18th, 2010 at 9:36 pmWell said, missmolly.
August 18th, 2010 at 9:39 pmAnd thank you for your perspective, too, Scary Brown Chick. Although you prove everything wrong that the right wing says about Muslims, they’ll just lie and say that you’re the exception, which you clearly are not.
August 18th, 2010 at 9:44 pm“Why does Scary Brown Chick refuse to condemn terrorism?!?”
/wingnut
August 18th, 2010 at 10:33 pmbackup:
“What if the American Pork lobby decides it wants to build a national barbeque museum next to the Muslim community center.”
The site is already being used as a mosque, and it’s next door neighbour is the Dakota Roadhouse, and here’s their menu. I don’t think any of it is halal…
August 19th, 2010 at 5:36 am“have you ever eaten pork in front of a group of Muslims?”
Yup.
“Have you ever walked your dog in around a cackle of Muslims?”
A what? Anyway, one of my Muslim friends has a dog, a great big Dane as well.
“Have you ever sang before an audience of Muslims?”
Another one of my Muslim friends is a singer! In the Bollywood tradition, no less.
“Are you aware of how these and so many other western behaviors and customs are so deeply, deeply offensive to them?”
Yup, and the answer that question seems to be: “bugger all”.
August 19th, 2010 at 5:46 amHaving lived and worked in Indonesia on and off since 1996 (largest population of people embracing Islam), been happily married to a Muslim from same for 14 years, continue to maintain a home in east Java suurounded by those dreaded Muslims…….I can tell you I continue to eat pork prepared by my wife, my wife sings and listens to “dang dut” music, popular music performed and enjoyed by people of all faiths in Indonesia, my wife practices her faith as she pleases, has the right to be as free as any woman in America, and I have never stopped openly expressing my disgust with those who continue to believe the Islamic and Christian “fairy tales” written by ignorant sheepherders way back when the earth was flat.
And this link will lead one to some Muslims never reported on by the corporately manipulated MSM who’s marketing continues to indicate America is populated by an excessive amount of pathetically ignorant morons seemingly too f ucking stupid to think beyond the ten foot square in front of a television.
http://dangdut.us/
August 19th, 2010 at 8:29 amClick on any link in the upper left for some entertainment provided by those “dreaded” Muslims.