
Over the past three days, one Alvin Greene from rural South Carolina has captured the popular imagination with his tale of coming from nowhere to capture 60 percent of the vote in the Democratic primary for U.S. Senate.
OK, 'popular imagination' may be going too far. But his story has captured our interest, and that of cable news, in a big way, a way that Greene himself probably wasn't prepared for.
But Greene, an unemployed Army vet who, as far as anybody can tell, didn't do a lick of campaigning, was able to do something many candidates never quite grasp: He stayed on message.
What was his campaign like? Old fashioned. Is he a Republican plant? Nope, he's a Democrat. How about those porn charges? No comment.
TPMtv compiled some of the best. Watch:
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verite
June 11, 2010 5:19 PM
TPM left off Mr Greene addressing the $10,000 application fee:
~4:47 of this interview video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUFN7ZkjgkA
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AdAbsurdum
June 11, 2010 5:30 PM in reply to verite
That was agonizing to listen to.
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mcc
June 11, 2010 7:20 PM in reply to verite
Goodness.
So I've been thinking this really wasn't the most unusual part of the story-- okay, so a random unemployed guy somehow had access to $10,000. Maybe he had been saving money while serving in the military? Maybe he at some point got a loan? I could imagine someone who'd been in the military for years managing during that time to get up to a $10,000 debt ceiling just by applying for credit cards without much difficulty.
But listening to this it's seeming a lot more suspicious. They ask where he got the money and he does not want to answer that question. He starts trying to get off the phone the instant he asks it. This might not mean he's a plant, it might mean he did something that was a slight violation of campaign laws (like getting the money from his parents, which I think is not allowed?). But it doesn't seem like it would be very difficult to put up an answer to how he saved up his filing money, if there's a reasonable explanation.
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fnord12
June 11, 2010 5:27 PM
The man is clearly bipolar or similar. Can we please stop making fun of him?
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Cal Gal
June 11, 2010 6:52 PM in reply to fnord12
The story is not "making fun of him," the story is mystification at how this poor man (although one must hold off too much sympathy with the porn charge pending) managed to capture 60% of the Democratic vote without being able to name any one particular place in the state where he did his "good, old fashioned campaigning."
When the story is researched by a good investigative reporter, the result will almost certainly be fascinating to read.
If he IS a plant, it's amazing that this organization/conspiracy is still totally in hiding.
If his election was a statistical fluke, it's certainly a very, very rare happening.
If he REALLY thinks he ran and won on his own, that's sad.
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NerdRage
June 11, 2010 6:52 PM in reply to fnord12
this dude is Benjamin Buford Blue...but you can call him Bubba...
he got big gums, but he knows just bout everythin they is to know bout scrimpin
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FreemanW
June 11, 2010 6:55 PM in reply to fnord12
Who is making fun of him?
The man has chosen to become a public figure, enter the contest to become a United States Senator.
So far, he seems ill equipped to account for himself and answer the simplest of questions.
Bi-polar, Village Idiot, or retarded, it is the electorates right and duty to know.
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It's Pat
June 11, 2010 7:39 PM in reply to fnord12
We're not making fun of him. He's not the grocery clerk at the corner store, he's running for public office and curious circumstances surround his candidacy.
The fact that he won't answer easy questions raises flags.
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Knothead Jake
June 11, 2010 10:26 PM in reply to fnord12
The true test will be if Fox stands behind a black person. Then you know the fix is in.
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midnight rambler
June 11, 2010 5:37 PM
They say he's a vet, was he actually in combat? I heard the series on traumatic brain injury on NPR the other day and he sounds kind of like the victims they talked to. Something is wrong with his eyes too, they point outward from each other instead of converging.
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marcusmarcus
June 11, 2010 5:38 PM
I'm obsessed with this story. I can't wait to get some answers.
By the way, what's with media-heads asking this guy why he gives the same answers to the same handful of questions he's being asked? Why is that an okay question to ask in this case but not in the case of the other 90% of politicians who do the exact same thing? If anything, that makes him seem more like a modern-day career politician, not less.
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baba2nde
June 11, 2010 6:13 PM in reply to marcusmarcus
I'll go one better: why is the media asking the same handful of questions? Answer: the media-heads have no originality, no independent thought, no depth of knowledge; just mindless corporate-scripted drivel.
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Cal Gal
June 11, 2010 6:53 PM in reply to baba2nde
Second that.
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Overreach THIS!
June 12, 2010 1:19 AM in reply to baba2nde
Third for that.
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ooo ooo
June 13, 2010 8:46 AM in reply to baba2nde
true.
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Darlingtonia
June 11, 2010 5:45 PM
Alvin Greene is the most refreshing breath of clean air to arise from South Carolina ever. His rural roots, Political Science Degree and Military Service set him apart from the business as usual politicians. This man takes the time to think before he holds forth and we can expect great things from him. Yes, I support him fully, as do the majority of folk in South Carolina.
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farnsworth
June 11, 2010 5:53 PM in reply to Darlingtonia
Sailorboy, is that you?
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Prefabfan
June 11, 2010 8:33 PM in reply to farnsworth
Seaman boy is still celebrating the chickenlady victory he foresaw. She so pretty....
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Knothead Jake
June 11, 2010 10:18 PM in reply to Prefabfan
Definitely SailorTard. No doubt about it. He's still recovering from his accident when he flogged the little sailor too hard while gazing upon a picture of Sarah's store bought funbags.
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Douglashh
June 11, 2010 6:18 PM in reply to Darlingtonia
If this is caliber you want in the Senate it's no wonder SC elected the likes of Sanford. This man is clearly not capable of being Senator and before you go off on me I don't consider myself qualified to be a Senator and I have a Masters Degree.
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fuman
June 11, 2010 6:19 PM in reply to Darlingtonia
Well tell us then, what is Greene's position on the HCR bill? The stimulus? Jobs for South Carolina? Anything?
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Zell
June 11, 2010 5:46 PM
Why is no one asking him about the policy positions that he holds?
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baba2nde
June 11, 2010 6:14 PM in reply to Zell
See my answer above.
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fuman
June 11, 2010 6:17 PM
Zell, that's what I was just going to comment on. It's the only thing that I was wondering last night while I watched Olbermann interviewing him.
So this felony charge that Mr Greene refuses to comment on. Could that be something Demint is holding against him? Trumped up charges? Run for office or you'll go to jail? This story is bizarre . . .
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garrito
June 11, 2010 6:19 PM
He's a modern-day Chauncey Gardener.
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Geoff Johnson
June 11, 2010 8:52 PM in reply to garrito
Chauncey Gardener had a lot more going on than this guy--at least he was a good gardener.
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Thanatopsis
June 11, 2010 6:20 PM
Big Al Greene reminds one of Tip O'Neill, and he has some of Ted Kennedy's moves. He will certainly up the intelligence quotient of the Senate Democrats.
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It's Pat
June 11, 2010 7:44 PM in reply to Thanatopsis
He reminds me of Paylin.
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Prefabfan
June 11, 2010 8:41 PM in reply to Thanatopsis
Both of those were highly intelligent college grads. Kenedy served in the military without being involuntarily removed. Al Green is a Republicant plant.
"One of O'Neill's greatest accomplishments as Speaker involved Northern Ireland. He worked with fellow Irish-American politicians New York Governor Hugh Carey, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, and Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, D-New York to craft a peace accord between the warring factions. Beginning with the "St. Patrick's Day declaration" in 1977 denouncing violence in Northern Ireland and culminating with the Irish aid package upon the signing of the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985, the "Four Horsemen" as they were called convinced both Carter and Reagan to press the British government on the subject." BUT REAGAN hated Tip, so you still get these dinosaur remarks
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SharonWraight
June 12, 2010 6:58 PM in reply to Prefabfan
Is it possible that the name similarity (and alphabetical order) is the main explanation needed in this case?
Al(vin) Green(e), the famous R&B; singer? Name recognition is HUGE in an election in which no candidate is well known. Alvin Greene and Al Green, that's close enough to affect people even if unconsciously.
Al Green was #65 in Rolling Stone's list of 100 Greatest Artists of All Time, he's in the R&R; Hall of Fame, a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award, sold 20 million albums, and a documentary film was made about him. His album "Lay It Down" reached #9 in 2009 on the Billboard hit album chart, his best in 35 years. He sang gospel early in his career, and later became an ordained pastor and returned to gospel. His popularity cut across racial lines.
Al(vin) Green(e)'s opponent, Vic Rawl, was (also) largely unknown. According to a late-May poll (PDF http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_SC_527.pdf), 82% of the state had not heard of Vic Rawl. Even worse: among the remaining 18% who heard of him, only 5% gave Rawl favorable ratings! That's remarkably bad.
Dems expected turnout to be around 120,000; actual turnout was 190,000 -- 60% higher. A big turnout means Dems probably didn't reach the unexpected voters (with robo-calls, knocking on doors, leaflets, etc.).
How about this for a test: in some nearby state, can someone do a random survey asking who people are likely to vote for, "Al Green[e] or Vic Rawls?" No further information available. Results from even 100 respondents would be interesting. :-)
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bearsense
June 11, 2010 6:55 PM
Obviously, this guy CAN compete against DeMent(ed).
Would SC be any worse off ???????
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FreemanW
June 11, 2010 6:59 PM
Could someone at least spring for a Tuxedo T-Shirt for the guy so that he looks “presentable” in his public interviews?
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It's Pat
June 11, 2010 8:28 PM in reply to FreemanW
He wore a 3 piece suit and tie on Keith's show last night and even though he looked a lot better, he still sounded clueless, was evasive and looked like he's hiding something.
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Helpcomputer
June 11, 2010 10:30 PM in reply to It's Pat
It didn't help that he was being fed his responses by an offscreen lawyer. I wonder who's paying that guy's bills?
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It's Pat
June 11, 2010 10:57 PM in reply to Helpcomputer
"I wonder who's paying that guy's bills?"
Good question.
Maybe the guy has another $10,400 stashed away, despite telling the court a few months ago that he was indigent.
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Ripper McCord
June 12, 2010 2:04 PM in reply to It's Pat
I liked his color coordination: the green tie and purple suit reminded me of Jack Nicholson's Joker in Tim Burton's first "Batman" movie.
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ohyeathatsright
June 11, 2010 7:06 PM
As he noted, "60% is not little". Are there no exit polls from SC? Can't we go ask 6 out of every 10 democrats in SC why they voted for him in the primary?
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Geoff Johnson
June 11, 2010 8:54 PM in reply to ohyeathatsright
This is actually a very good point. Maybe someone has already done it, but some media outlet should be hunting down Dem voters in South Carolina, finding about a dozen who voted for Greene, and asking why they did so. It could be pretty interesting.
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June 11, 2010 7:07 PM
Is it possible that SC voters were just fed up with the corporate-style politics of "mainstream" candidates and decided to support an unknown with (apparently) no corporate money or corporate ties?
http://www.facebook.com/campaigncorner
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reasonableanonymous
June 11, 2010 7:10 PM
His sizeable victory with no campaign certainly doesn't reflect well on his opponent.
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hoppycalif2
June 11, 2010 7:15 PM
Well, maybe he is a plant by the DeMint campaign. Who knows? But, the voters picked him, so he will be the new senator from S. Carolina if the Democrats win. Frankly I wouldn't worry much about his abilities as a senator. It wouldn't be too hard to find US Senators he would stand head and shoulders above, starting with DeMint, of course.
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phillygirl
June 11, 2010 7:52 PM
Wait a second. What difference does it make if he was a plant? People voted for this man. The most disturbing question by far is ... what is the IQ of the average South Carolina voter? Do people down there, uh, read? How did we get a state with so many idiots walking around? Could we get them to secede again?
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commie atheist
June 11, 2010 8:12 PM
I have a feeling that he won the primary thanks to Diebold. Otherwise, 60% of voters in the primary voted for someone who they didn't know. who did no campaigning, who has little or no grasp of any issues, and whose name was first on the ballot.
I can see a protest vote for someone like him, who has no political background or any apparent connections to special interests, getting maybe 10-15%. But 60%?!? Something's rotten in the State of Sanford.
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It's Pat
June 11, 2010 8:21 PM in reply to commie atheist
"I have a feeling that he won the primary thanks to Diebold. "
Same here.
There are reports that in some precincts, Greene received more votes than were officially cast.
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Knothead Jake
June 11, 2010 10:24 PM in reply to It's Pat
Absolutely Diebold. SC is one of those states like Ohio and Kentucky where it's easy to find hillbillies to do the Diebold Shuffle.
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FreemanW
June 12, 2010 3:11 AM in reply to commie atheist
This has DIEBOLD written all over it.
Sources state that in 25 Precincts, Greene received MORE votes than were officially cast.
Oooops
Countdown with Keith Olbermann
Politico Experts review SC Ballots
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It's Pat
June 12, 2010 9:25 AM in reply to FreemanW
Clearly nothing to see here and we are all just picking on Greene.
I want to know who paid that filing fee.
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SqueakyRat
June 12, 2010 1:43 PM in reply to It's Pat
What I find hard to believe is that there is a $10,000 filing fee in South Carolina or anywhere else in a supposedly democratic country.
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Spads
June 11, 2010 8:17 PM
If elected, he will be easily and quickly corrupted. Probably won’t even see it coming.
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FreemanW
June 12, 2010 3:15 AM in reply to Spads
He's already been corrupted.
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thepeoplechoose
June 11, 2010 8:36 PM
If you look real hard you'll find republicans lurking somewhere very close to this absurdity. This smells so bad if you put a bloodhound on this trail he'd blow out his nose.
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alstott
June 11, 2010 8:49 PM
He is not a plant. That would be an insult to plants. I am not sure Alvin Greene could ever do something as complicated as photosynthesis.
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Winston Smith
June 11, 2010 8:57 PM
Gotta hand it to the two SC Dems who didn't vote for him.
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willia451
June 11, 2010 8:57 PM
Alvin Greene? Seriously? This is what we are going to choose to spend our time on?
Please.
Look. I'm a mature progressive. And I'm telling you. This is stinking hilarious.
If you can't see the humor in it, then, I just don't know what to say.
The SC dems got caught with their pants down. It just is what it is.
Maybe they will pay better attention next time.
LOL!!!
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sigridsmith
June 11, 2010 10:09 PM
Has anybody done independent polling in SC to find out if 6o% of the dems actually did vote for him? Could this be a combination GOP plant/voting machine fix?
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willia451
June 11, 2010 10:32 PM
Our beautiful Gulf of Mexico has been destroyed.
And THIS is what we choose to spend our time on?
Horrific. Your should be ashamed TPM.
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LiberalRedneck
June 12, 2010 9:23 AM in reply to willia451
Clearly another story on TPM about the Gulf disaster will make all the oil in the water go away.
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Glinda
June 12, 2010 8:48 PM in reply to LiberalRedneck
LOL!
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ooo ooo
June 13, 2010 8:54 AM in reply to willia451
stop everything and start begging D.C. for toupes... if that BP guy would give up his collection and rip that one off his head encouraging others to join him a lot of that mess could be contained. wigged off.
oh yes. ive stopped doing everything except thinking of ways to solve the gulf crisis... and feeling so pious it hurts the good hurt.
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Impishparrot
June 13, 2010 11:48 AM in reply to willia451
My vote is as valuable as my money to me. Why isn't it to you? The Gulf oil is gonna spill til Christmas. We've got an election in November that will seat officials who will decide who is going to hold whom responsible for what in this tragic, man-made catastrophe.
Relying on a e-voting machine is about as 'safe' as the rhythm method.
See Kentucky: [UPDATED] Clay County, KY Election Officials Found Guilty of Election Fraud, Vote Buying
Convicted high-ranking officials include a circuit court judge, county clerk and school superintendent
Each face up to 20 years in broad conspiracy that included manipulation of electronic voting machines..
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thepoliticalcat
June 11, 2010 10:58 PM
Why hasn't anyone else pointed out that this is clearly Glenn Beck in blackface? I'm outraged.
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barnacle
June 12, 2010 12:29 AM
As the guy on the Qwest commercial says, weird.
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Overreach THIS!
June 12, 2010 1:21 AM
Third for that.
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Jormungand
June 12, 2010 1:59 AM
True comedy. How could this possibly have happened? Or, wait...
As another commenter put it quite succinctly, on this local article (http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=1992209084141467&act;=post&pid;=11861006100935349):
"Has it been so long that people forgot South Carolina was Barack Obama's first primary win in the national primary race? There was a strong push back then to get minorities registered in ... See Moretime to vote, not necessarily for Obama, but for democrats as a whole in a strongly republican state. It's no secret that the majority of those new votes were aligned with race. The SC democratic party can only blame themselves for Alvin Greene's win because:
1.) They should have backed a minority candidate that coincided with the recent voting trends.
2.) For forgetting that all those new voters can still continue to exercise their right to vote."
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Backcountry
June 12, 2010 2:02 AM
It's time for the entire Democratic establishment in South Carolina to resign in shame.
What a disgrace.
Either way: If they saw this guy coming, they're idiots. If they didn't see this guy coming, they're idiots.
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Deborah in Seattle
June 12, 2010 2:44 AM
I don't necessarily think he's so awful. It sounds like at worst, he's got some mental illness which definitely could be a problem for him if it continues untreated. But really, was the other guy going to win against DeMint? When the incumbent is firmly entrenched and there is no really obvious person to run against them, the challenger is well, whoever feels like getting their ass kicked.
And frankly, when this all shakes out, he's going to do better against DeMint than the other guy would have. I have no doubt of that.
And what's the big deal? So many of the current crop of senators are dumb as a box of rocks AND out of touch with their constituents. We don't know if Greene is smart or not (give him some time to get used to the spotlight, he already sounds less dumb than Sarah Palin) and surely he knows more about everyday people than any sitting senator. He may even know how to use an ATM card.
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Syd
June 13, 2010 12:26 AM in reply to Deborah in Seattle
Great post - agree 100%
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ooo ooo
June 13, 2010 8:58 AM in reply to Deborah in Seattle
i agree. and they are all corporate 'plants' anyhow.
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reasonableanonymous
June 12, 2010 2:55 AM
While Greene had virtually no campaign and therefore no name recognition, apparently his opponent had only about 20% name recognition, and of that 20%, only 1/4 of those people gave him a positive approval rating. So maybe it shouldn't be surprising that the guy with 0.01% name recognition won the race against the guy with 20% name recognition, 3/4 of it negative.
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castenada91
June 12, 2010 3:04 AM
You gotta admit it was slick work finding this guy, setting him up and putting him out there. The beauty of it is that all they did was enable him to do something that part of him wanted to do anyway. This isnt just about someone handing him sone money. He actually wants to be The Candidate. He actually wants to be a senator.
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FreemanW
June 12, 2010 3:20 AM
This is a product of DIEBOLD and DIEBOLD is a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP.
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reasonableanonymous
June 12, 2010 5:19 AM in reply to FreemanW
So let me get this straight, the Republicans had DIEBOLD throw the election in a Democratic primary between someone with .01%name recognition, and someone with 18% name recognition, 3/4 of it negative, in a district where the Republican is almost sure to win anyway. The question is: Why would they bother?
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It's Pat
June 12, 2010 9:29 AM in reply to reasonableanonymous
My theory:
To make the Democratic Party look bad
To make Rawls look bad
To split the black vote
or
Because they can
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sigridsmith
June 12, 2010 9:49 AM in reply to reasonableanonymous
They are practicing their techniques in an election that they thought would slip under the radar preparing for future elections. But they overshot.
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Ripper McCord
June 12, 2010 2:10 PM in reply to reasonableanonymous
reasonable, Mr. Greene won a state, not a district. And what is the source of the figures you use, particularly that Vic Rawl had 18% name recognition and that 3/4 of that was negative?
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verite
June 12, 2010 8:30 AM in reply to FreemanW
Actually they use ES &S; machines that were banned in other states (as per the AP article):
S.C. to use voting machines banned in other states
Associated Press
Monday, January 7, 2008
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2008/jan/07/s_c_use_voting_machines_banned_other_sta26854/
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FreemanW
June 13, 2010 3:38 AM in reply to verite
Right you are, they're the outfit that Chuck Hagel was invested with--during his tenure as a Senator--and he failed to disclose his investment position in any of his disclosure filings.
The point stands, electronic voting is unverifiable, and there is one reason it is unverifiable. That is exactly the way they want it, so that it can be used to throw/fix/create the results desired in elections.
In the Rawl versus Greene race, the disparity between the results in absentee votes versus the results of electronic votes on Election Day is better than exit polling in determining a statistical aberration in voting.
The fix is all too obvious, the disparity is ridiculous.
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FreemanW
June 13, 2010 3:45 AM in reply to FreemanW
Further, the ES & S machines were used in Hagel's elections.
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Dean Orff
June 12, 2010 8:26 AM
Hey Reasonal, here's why the conservative gangsters would bother to screw with the voting machine software:
Conservative magazine National Review published a South Carolina poll from May 18th, the SC Index, done by Crantford Research. It showed Jim Demint at 50%, Democrat Vic Rawl 43%, Alvin Greene 7%. Who's gonna tell me Alvin Greene's support went from One-Sixth of Vic Rawl's support to whomping him by 20 points in less than one month -- when he didn't even campaign and nobody knows who he is? COME ON. I don't care who gave Greene the $10,000 to get on the ballot -- South Carolinians Did Not Vote for Alvin Greene.
Somebody hacked into the central computer software that runs the South Carolina voting machines. It's not that hard for a knowledgeable, devious person to do. It's been done before. And I bet those computer jokesters in the SC Repub. party are laughing their heads off right now.
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verite
June 12, 2010 9:00 AM in reply to Dean Orff
Thanks, Dean Orff, there is the SC Index poll of which you speak:
http://scindex.blogspot.com/2010/05/new-poll-results-for-sc.html
This doesn't pass the smell test! Please, TPM, stay on this story. The ES & S voting machines were BANNED IN OTHER STATES!, including my state of Ohio where the SOS, Jennifer Brunner, commissioned a study called the EVEREST Project in which three teams of security researchers, based at Pennsylvania State University (State College, PA), the University of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA), and WebWise Security, Inc. (Santa Barbara, CA), conducted the security reviews.
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It's Pat
June 12, 2010 9:35 AM in reply to Dean Orff
"I don't care who gave Greene the $10,000 to get on the ballot -"
This is the only part of your post that I don't agree.
We need to know who paid the fee because whoever it was thought it was worth forking out that amount, knowing it would pay off and Greene would win.
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Dr Lemming
June 12, 2010 9:42 AM
Check out 538's discussion of voting irregularities. This has the makings of a really interesting investigative story. Of course, without a voting paper trail there is lots we will never know. Which is the way some folks like it....
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LynnTTT
June 12, 2010 9:58 AM
I'm a Democrat in SC. There was almost nothing heard from either of these two candidates. Two days before the election we got a robo-call from Rawl, but that was it. Even our local club was pushing only the governors race, mainly because that's the only viable candidates we have-Vincent Sheehan. If the GOP did "plant" Greene, I have no idea why. Jim DeMint is going to win. I think many people just didn't know anything about either candidate and picked the first name on the ballot. Certainly is fishy that this guy had $ 10,000 though.
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beamreach
June 12, 2010 10:31 AM
I say way to go Tim Kaine! You're doing a bang up job of organizing. I like to think that, somehow, Howard Dean would have sniffed this guy out and avoided this embarrassing debacle.
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Deborah in Seattle
June 12, 2010 10:37 AM
Why is it so fishy? Some people do have savings.
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Vince Ramos
June 12, 2010 10:50 AM
I think we should rally behind Greene and end the DeMint insanity. Poetic justice, no?
And I think we should take a cue from the crescent moon on the state flag and start referring to it as Saudi Carolina.
Finally, we should ask them to secede again, but this time we should let them go.
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sean
June 12, 2010 11:21 AM
Saudi Carolina
LOL!
The canned press ire appears as lackluster as the sappy plant's in these clips.
Considering our brackish and smelly post modern info pool, I can't get myself too worked up over a more obvious Manchurian Candidate than usual even if his non-lawyerly, Ivy League antecedents offend the delicate sensibilities of the truly compromised...
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4tonmantis
June 12, 2010 11:30 AM
I watched the KO interview as well as the other one and I have a couple thoughts:
He kinda seems like the perfect candidate for SC if you ask me.
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Habanero
June 12, 2010 12:30 PM
Chauncy Gardener
"Being There"
My favorite Peter Sellers movie ever.
And, sadly, one of the most prophetic films of the last half-century. Bush, Palin, Greene...
What ever happened to the idea of voting for qualified candidates?
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Hkoch II
June 13, 2010 12:41 PM in reply to Habanero
When was the last time you saw a truly qualified candidate?
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FreemanW
June 13, 2010 5:56 PM in reply to Hkoch II
Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich, Jerry Brown, Russ Feingold, Al Franken, Ralph Nader . . . to name a few.
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gtash
June 12, 2010 12:41 PM
I have nothing against Mr. Greene. He is focused on getting South Carolina back to work because he and much of the rest of South Carolina needs a job.
I think the more interesting aspect of this story is South Carolina law: (excerpt from HuffPo)
"Court records show Greene was arrested in November and charged with showing obscene Internet photos to a University of South Carolina student, then talking about going to her room at a university dorm.
Charged with disseminating, procuring or promoting obscenity, Greene could face up to five years in prison. He has yet to enter a plea or be indicted.
Story continues below
South Carolina state law prohibits convicted felons from serving in state office. Felons can serve in federal office, although the U.S. House or Senate could vote to expel any member deemed unfit to serve."
College-age women exposed feloniously to dirty photographs. That is a vital concern. I am sure Mr. Greene has a legislative objective in mind.
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gtash
June 12, 2010 1:04 PM
I like this guy more and more:(---NYT---Robbie Brown contributed reporting from Manning, S.C.)
"When asked in a phone interview Friday whether he was having “fun,” Mr. Greene quickly answered yes, before asking for clarification.
“What do you mean by fun?”
Without waiting for an answer, Mr. Greene said he was not interested in “fun,” or signing autographs (which he has yet to do) or indulging any of the trappings of his unlikely celebrity. He is interested in sticking to the issues that are important — jobs, education, justice — and to conveying why he is “the best candidate for the United States Senate in South Carolina.”
Before elaborating on why he was, Mr. Greene excused himself, saying that he had to finish another interview."
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Thetragicsongwildfire
June 12, 2010 4:20 PM
I don't understand why no one has mentioned that this _has_ happened before in SC. See:
"...Shealy, with the help of Robert Kohn, recruited unemployed black fisherman Benjamin Hunt, Jr. to run for Congress against Republican Arthur Ravenel, Jr. Shealy conspired to increase the turnout of white voters by playing to the racial fears of the South Carolina electorate. He promised Hunt, who had a prior drug arrest, $900 to run for Congress..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Shealy
http://harpers.org/archive/2007/10/hbc-90001427
Yes, the situation is a little different but, doh, there is a history of this sort thing in SC. Also, of course, there's more than one history of issues with recordless voting machines.
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It's Pat
June 12, 2010 6:09 PM in reply to Thetragicsongwildfire
The Frmr. Democratic Party Chairman alluded to this on Keith's show last night.
This is all very interesting. The cases sound very similar. Plus with the disparity of the Diebold machine and votes tallied vs actual votes --- something doesn't add up.
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Thetragicsongwildfire
June 13, 2010 1:22 AM in reply to It's Pat
Yup, it's fishy. An illegal stooge candidate may have been alluded to but I haven't seen anyone mention this actual and fairly recent example run by a guy who was (before his brain tumor) one of Jim DeMint's main advisers and, perhaps, the key GOP strategist in SC. I'm tired of hearing "Oh, there's just no way this kind of thing could be a state-level GOP conspiracy. There's no way that could happen." Well, duh, it's happened before, recently, and it was run by an overlapping group of players. Also, note that it was illegal then, some of the people involved ended up in court, and, supposedly, SC law was changed to make it _more_ illegal in the future. Seems to me there's a story there.
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RuckMaker
June 12, 2010 5:21 PM
According to WaPo:
"There's only $114 in his campaign bank account, he says, and the only check he ever wrote from it was to cover his filing fee . . ."
"He has no cellphone and no computer, except the one at the public library . . ."
"A campaign flier lies on the table. 'Satin green,' he says proudly. 'It's pretty. I like that.' Greene won't say who printed it or where it was distributed. He cautions that it's his only copy and should be handled with care. Asked how many fliers were printed, he says 'hundreds,' then pauses.
" 'Maybe thousands. Hundreds. Maybe a hundred. I don't know exactly.' "
And as if all that isn't strange enough, he also paid $10,000 in March to get on the ballot even though he had a felony obscenity charge hanging over his head since November ... ?
Is a puzzlement.
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desert rain
June 12, 2010 6:17 PM
What I wonder: How did an unknown get 60% of the vote?
Coupled with this: How ubiquitous are electronic voting machines in SC?
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Spads
June 12, 2010 6:54 PM
He stands a good chance of getting elected and probably will be, considering the opposition. I don't believe there has been any election irregularities, that’s just partisan hype.
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FreemanW
June 13, 2010 3:48 AM in reply to Spads
You stand just as good a chance of getting elected.
Who are you again?
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Spads
June 13, 2010 6:37 AM in reply to FreemanW
We'll see whom gets elected. I'm not agreeing with your opinion regarding "election stealing".
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Dean Orff
June 14, 2010 5:16 AM in reply to Spads
Right on, Spads - "no election irregularities, just partisan hype" And also, God didn't make little green apples, and it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summertime. I'm sure you would agree with that, too.
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JasonsRobot
June 12, 2010 7:38 PM
I'm wondering if it's the doing of some computer hackers. Perhaps, not wanting to appear to be favoring a particular legitimate candidate, some hackers put him in the race to prove they had control of the outcome. Whatever the case, it sure is fun.
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Glinda
June 12, 2010 8:50 PM
I have to be honest here. I like the guy.
He's a helluva lot smarter than DeMint and obviously more of a mensch than Lindsey Graham. I hope he kicks butt in SC.
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castanea
June 12, 2010 11:00 PM
The conspiracy theorist in me fancies that Greene's victory was cooked up as a dry run to test the feasibility of manipulating elections via computer hanky panky, with an eye toward, for example, ensuring that Nikki Haley would lose any potential run-off election.
Heck, voting machine hacking may even have been used to keep her below 50 percent, forcing a run-off. I'm in tinfoil hat territory, I realize ... but then again, we're talking about South Carolina.
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FreemanW
June 13, 2010 3:41 AM in reply to castanea
When everyone knows about it and it is being discussed openly, it is not a conspiracy.
Florida 2000 was the "dry run".
Ohio 2004 was the real deal.
This is just more of the same. This is as good as they can do and it is laughable just how lame these electronic shenanigans really are. If you're going to lie, make it big. If you're going to steal an election, make it obvious, right out in the open, up in people's faces.
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castanea
June 13, 2010 10:47 AM in reply to FreemanW
It might not be laughable if the mainstream media were investigating the possibility of shenanigans, but from what I've seen thus far, they are trying to establish a "Democrats really got surprised!" meme.
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Impishparrot
June 13, 2010 11:34 AM in reply to FreemanW
Georgia 2002
Documents show Georgia's Secretary of State knew of Diebold patch
">Chambliss/Cleland and Perdue/Barnes was 'ground zero' launch.
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Impishparrot
June 13, 2010 11:38 AM in reply to FreemanW
There was a huge election fraud prosecution recently in Kentucky - the minority Senate leader, Mitch McConnell's state - that was totally ignored by the media:
See Kentucky: [UPDATED] Clay County, KY Election Officials Found Guilty of Election Fraud, Vote Buying
Convicted high-ranking officials include a circuit court judge, county clerk and school superintendent
Each face up to 20 years in broad conspiracy that included manipulation of electronic voting machines..
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Spads
June 13, 2010 6:46 AM
I don't agree with the blog's statement that this is in the news in a big way:
[But his story has captured our interest, and that of cable news, in a big way]
It's not on CNN and if it's not on CNN, it's not on cable news in a big way. Least I have not seen it on CNN.
Almost non-news really.....however it is interesting should the story presented here be true.
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Jormungand
June 13, 2010 6:54 AM
I am sorry to see so many people freaking out over this primary. Is this really the worst thing happening in the United States right now? He may not be "ready for prime time" but from conversations I've had with numerous voters, I've received the distinct feeling that they are sick and tired of 'people' running for elected office who have immediate and absolute answers for everything. AKA, knee-jerk talking points....?
The same goes for the NC primary with Elaine Marshall, I feel. Perhaps the chattering classes have spent so much time obsessing over their own greatness and sound-byte mania that they've lost sight of the goal. Sometimes complicated questions cannot be answered immediately, unless a candidate is a complete political tool. If that is what we here at TPM are looking and hoping for, I've been reading and recommending the wrong blog to friends for years.
And if we're all about supporting political tools over any modicum of honesty, I feel bad to have visited and trusted this site for so long. I get the the distinct feeling of a soap opera.
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druidity
June 13, 2010 8:46 AM in reply to Jormungand
If you're concerned at all about Election Integrity or the possibility of Election Theft through Unverifiable Electronic Voting, then yes, i'd say this story is a big deal. There are a lot of unanswered questions here.
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Impishparrot
June 13, 2010 11:40 AM in reply to Jormungand
Election fraud is real. These machines can be manipulated by the cast of Hee-Haw for gawd's sake:
See Kentucky: [UPDATED] Clay County, KY Election Officials Found Guilty of Election Fraud, Vote Buying
Convicted high-ranking officials include a circuit court judge, county clerk and school superintendent
Each face up to 20 years in broad conspiracy that included manipulation of electronic voting machines..
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FreemanW
June 13, 2010 6:07 PM in reply to Jormungand
"And if we're all about supporting political tools over any modicum of honesty, I feel bad to have visited and trusted this site for so long. I get the the distinct feeling of a soap opera.
What does that have to do with election tampering and fraud?
Why are you introducing false equivalencies?
After Florida 2000, Ohio 2004 and numerous local and state races with abundant evidence of "irregularities", at this point in contemporary American history, the only people unaware of or ignorant to election fraud have their cranium in a dark, warm, moist orifice, about eighteen to twenty inches above their knees.
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Dilirius
June 13, 2010 10:45 AM
Getting money from his parents would be okay. Getting it from someone unrelated, not so much:
SECTION 7-25-200. Unlawful inducement to file for or withdraw from candidacy for election.
(A) It is unlawful to offer or accept, or attempt to offer or accept, either directly or indirectly, money, a loan of money, or any other thing of value which includes, but is not limited to, employment or the promise of employment to induce a person to file or withdraw as a candidate for any state or federal elected office.
Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit legitimate campaign contributions or the pledge to make a campaign contribution as otherwise allowed by law. Nor shall this section prevent a person from paying from his own funds, the filing fee of an immediate family member which means a spouse, child, grandchild, mother, father, sister, or brother.
Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section shall be fined not more than ten thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year.
(B) The Attorney General or the solicitor of the judicial circuit in which the violation occurred, shall prosecute immediately a person violating the provisions of this section.
(C) Nothing in this section shall preclude appropriate civil remedies by an aggrieved party. The court shall, upon a finding that a person violated the provisions of this section, award reasonable attorney's fees and the costs of bringing such action as determined by the court.
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Hkoch II
June 13, 2010 12:35 PM
Alvin Greene is my hero. He saw an opportunity to run against an otherwise unopposed political candidate. No political office should be given away simply because only one individual registered as a candidate for that office.
The original intent of our founding fathers, when they established our democratic system was for the common man to hold political office. The plan wasn’t to have life-long professional politicians hold offices until retirement age.
I must admit it is somewhat odd that he is being as quiet about his win, lack of campaign and his past in general. The fact he has a felony charge against him pending trial is also a concern. The thing to remember though is that a charge and a conviction are two totally different things. There doesn’t seem to be much information about the circumstances surrounding Mr. Greene’s felony charge except that he showed what’s been described as a pornographic website to a college student. How is it that he presented this website to this student? What was the situation that led to this occurrence? I doubt Mr. Greene randomly picked someone from a crown and showed them this alleged pornographic website.
The position of the S.C. Democratic Party asking Mr. Greene to withdraw, after winning an uncontested election, is ludicrous. I believe the Democratic Parties position is solely based on the fact someone they know nothing about upset the apple cart by winning a race they thought was pre-determined.
Depending on the outcome of the felony charge against Mr. Greene, if it turns out the charge is dropped, I will vote for him. He can’t possibly be any worse than the majority of the individuals currently holding political office here in South Carolina.
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natal
June 13, 2010 3:19 PM
Mr. Greene is testing the authenticity of the American democracy if he's legitimate. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
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Smitty McGhee
June 13, 2010 5:54 PM
Greene's not impressive, but he is not a proven dumbass, either. Maybe he's just a simple guy and comfortable with who he is.
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inokeah
June 13, 2010 7:36 PM
Yes he is... or is it yes we can ?
If you ask any questions you are a bigggggot.
The difference between Alvin and J. Clyburn is Al is........ No difference.
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bogglesthemind
June 13, 2010 7:50 PM
I'm having a Joe the Plumber moment.
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AJM
June 14, 2010 12:05 AM
Here is Alvin Greene when he is more comfortable and being treated fairly. Cleve Brown does a very good job and reports fairly -- notes thast Greene refuses to discuss how he campaigned --not as MSM would have it that he can't say how he campaigned:
UPDATE: News 2 tracks down, questions “mystery” Senate candidate Alvin Greene
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rynato
June 14, 2010 5:56 AM
Fox News Channel reported the Greene porn angle. No mention whatsoever of the GOP election ratfucking angle.
More fair and balanced journalism from FNC.
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surrymark
June 14, 2010 9:28 AM
Whether you buy or don't buy all the comments on Greene - where'd the entrance fee, whether his eyes point outwards, whether his straightforward answers are dumb or refreshingly simple - there's this big feature about the whole story: the political establishment and much of the media are freaked out. It seems they are freaked by someone getting so much play without receiving or spending a whole lot of money. The possibility of someone getting in the game without them is the ring of doom.
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surrymark
June 14, 2010 9:45 AM
Whether you buy or don't buy all the comments on Greene - where'd the entrance fee, whether his eyes point outwards, whether his straightforward answers are dumb or refreshingly simple - there's this big feature about the whole story: the political establishment and much of the media are freaked out. It seems they are freaked by someone getting so much play without receiving or spending a whole lot of money. The possibility of someone getting in the game without them is the ring of doom.
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HelmutNewton
June 14, 2010 1:57 PM
Interesting that he doesn't deny that he's a plant. He just keeps repeating that he's always been a Democrat. A poor attempt at deflection.
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