Sue Lowden, the front-running Republican challenger to Sen. Harry Reid, yesterday doubled down on her idea that health care could be paid for using the barter system.
Last week, when Lowden suggested "that bartering is really good," it seemed that she may have been talking about haggling prices and just had her vocab mixed up. It happens to everyone.
But yesterday, on a local news program, Lowden seemed to double down on the idea. Asked whether the statement made her seem disconnected, she shot back that it's Reid who's disconnected for not knowing "that this is already happening in our state."
"Let's change the system and talk about what the possibilities are. I'm telling you that this works. You know, before we all started having health care, in the olden days, our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor. They would say I'll paint your house," she said. "[That's] what people would do to get health care with their doctors. Doctors are very sympathetic people."
"I'm not backing down from that system," she added.
Reid's campaign blasted the video clip out to reporters this afternoon (subject line: "Seriously ... Has Sue Lowden Lost Her Mind?). Watch:
Lowden went on to say that barter "is not even mentioned in my plan" and said it's just an alternative she was discussing at a town hall meeting.
The TPM Polltracker Average, in a matchup between Reid and Lowden, shows Lowden leading Reid 52.1% to 38.2%.

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Moose49
April 20, 2010 5:56 PM
There are lots of good reasons why Reid is behind in the polls and faces a tough reelection fight. But to this crazy????? Talk about adding insult to injury.
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hunter
April 20, 2010 6:45 PM in reply to Moose49
This is great news. Nevadans know lots about Harry Reid, and next to nothing about Lowden. That's why Reid does so poorly in these matchups...he'd be losing to a ham sandwich at this point. But once the campaign actually starts humming, and people start paying attention to stuff like this, I have a hard time seeing this looney actually displacing the pugilist Reid.
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mans_best_friend
April 20, 2010 6:53 PM in reply to hunter
This woman IS a ham sandwich. One has to wonder if she has someone checking to make sure her shoes are on the right feet before she goes out in public.
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Tim
April 22, 2010 1:32 AM in reply to mans_best_friend
This begs the question: How stupid does a politician have to be before they begin to insult the intelligence of the American people?
The P.T. Barnum answer is that you never arrive at that point.
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JNagarya
April 22, 2010 6:58 PM in reply to Tim
So, how does it work? Not having any chickens, would I have to buy chickens when I wnated to see the doctor?
And what if the doctor is a vegetarian?
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Steve
April 22, 2010 7:24 PM in reply to hunter
The ham sandwich would make a much better senator anyway. At least it's good for something, which is obviously more than Nevadans think of Harry, with good reason.
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FreeRider
April 20, 2010 9:04 PM in reply to Moose49
Please, please, please. Tell me just a few of those "lots of reasons" why Reid is behind in the polls. I can't come up with them. He hasn't been caught cheating on his taxes or his wife; he didn't take a preferred loan from Countrywide; he hasn't been diddlying little boys.
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Moose49
April 21, 2010 8:53 AM in reply to FreeRider
Fair enough. I just meant the combination of it being a tough year in general for Democrats, Reid's own lack of charisma (understatement of the decade) and his inadequacies as majority leader. Hopefully, enough Nevada voters will realize by the time November rolls around that he's light years better than someone who looks like she could give Palin and Bachmann a run for their money in all-around idiocy.
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FreeRider
April 21, 2010 2:34 PM in reply to Moose49
Reid has always had a charisma deficit. There's a phrase for people who think Reid hasn't been an effective majority leader: FUCKING RETARDED!
Reid has pushed through more legislation in a shorter period than any majority leader in modern times. That includes LBJ and Mike Mansfield.
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JNagarya
April 22, 2010 7:01 PM in reply to Moose49
Who said it's "a tough year" for Democrats? Republicans, and pundits who simultaneously add that six months in politics is a lifetime.
And those who type without thinking.
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JNagarya
April 22, 2010 7:06 PM in reply to Moose49
"inadequacies as majority leader."
Health care insurance reform after 100 years of failed efforts?
Clue: NO ONE becomes a leader in Congress -- this includes Pelosi -- unless they are politically savy. Reid is not and amatuer or beginner.
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Beetlejuice
April 21, 2010 9:27 AM in reply to FreeRider
Nevada is primarily a two city State...Las Vegas and Reno. Every place else is a farming community. Las Vegas is primarily the Democrat's stronghold. Everywhere else is republican red territory. Also, much of rural Nevada was homesteaded by Mormons, which are mostly repub's and take their orders from Salt Lake City. There's also a fevered mistrust of the federal government by the rural community since almost all the free land in the state is controlled by BLM. Take all that into consideration and it's pretty damn difficult to figure out which way the public will vote in any given election cycle.
Other things to keep in mind is just about all repub's I know wouldn't vote for a Democrat for any public office if their life depended on it. Just look at the Governor. You'd think by now there'd be some grassroots effort to get him out of office. As for Ensign, he's riding the ropes hoping Lowden wins so he would be crowned Nevada's senior Senator and all his trespasses forgiven.
Lowden is married to a casino mogol so she represent the casino business interests. So expect big bucks to be filling her coffers instead of Reid's. Also look at how well the Nevada repub in the state legislature have move the state to a diverse economy away from a sole-sourced one totally dependent on gambling revenues and job sources.
On the other hand, Reid represents the mining interests in Nevada - if it can't be grown it must be mined. Being a converted Mormon and the son of a miner carries some weight with most of the rural populace, but no one can tell exactly how much.
Lowden is playing to the crowd about the chickens. She's mining their sympathy for the old days when things were simple and people of little means could get the services they needed by simple bartering. In small, rural communities it may work enough for the public to vote for her. She's playing Bu$h's game by seeking out what clicks with the small, rural communities to offset the huge majority of Democrats in Las Vegas. While the number of Democrats in Las Vegas is huge, it's not enough to overpower the rest of the state, which is mostly republican.
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Lovelynina
April 21, 2010 11:50 AM in reply to Beetlejuice
Well-written, well thought-out comment. It's a welcome change from the usual rant about right-wing ignoramuses. Shows you that there's a back story for everything. Thanks.
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Beetlejuice
April 21, 2010 12:57 PM in reply to Lovelynina
Just my biased, personal opinion after 25 years as a permanent resident. I've watched the state slowly turn red over the years and as a state employee, got enough first hand knowledge from people outside the Las Vegas area to know the tide turns blue as often as a blue moon occurs. And Obama's win in Nevada was a blue moon event.
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FreeRider
April 21, 2010 2:40 PM in reply to Beetlejuice
I appreciate your thoughtful response, however . . .
those same factors were in play when (a) Reid won by 25+ points in 2004 and (b) Obama carried the state by 12+ points in 2008.
Democrats outnumber Republicans in NV by 80K.
Reid is losing because Democrats have turned against him for some reason I can't fathom. Republicans stick by their scumbags 'till the bloody end!
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Beetlejuice
April 21, 2010 3:06 PM in reply to FreeRider
Democrats have always held the higher number of voters...it's just they don't always vote. I was in Nevada when he went against Ensign and was surprised how poorly he faired, but still managed to win. So it's no surprise he's up against a wall this time around. It's Lowden's race to loose, but I think in the final moments before election day, there will be enough people energized to give Harry another term. Especially with Gibbon and Ensign as the Party leaders in the state, the last thing Nevada needs is a freshman Senator that's on the same political level as Palin and Bachman ... totally clueless.
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FreeRider
April 21, 2010 3:12 PM in reply to Beetlejuice
1. The same criteria you listed for his poor showing existed in 2004 when he won by 25+ points.
2. The demographics have not changed since then but the people's attitude about Reid has changed dramatically. Why?
3. There has been no scandal and no allegations of wrong-doing. What has he done to lose the support of the voters who have kept him in office for decades?
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geofu54
April 21, 2010 6:37 PM in reply to FreeRider
Well, perhaps because people are suckers for a pretty face... Also, too.
(TFIC, just in case. After those recent stupid remarks by Lowden, I am a little optimistic now Reid can pull it off at the end).
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FreeRider
April 21, 2010 6:59 PM in reply to geofu54
He's polling behind Tarkanian, too. Is that what you call a pretty face?
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geofu54
April 21, 2010 7:54 PM in reply to FreeRider
Ugh. Some people have weird taste, so...
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geofu54
April 21, 2010 8:03 PM in reply to FreeRider
With all seriousness, aside from midterms generally being tough for incumbents, I think it comes partly from sort of relative deprivation on the Dem's part, i.e., gap between unreasonable expectation rooted in sorta macho-man worship and the reality in the Senate.
When people say someone's "leadership" or lack thereof, it's often about the strong hero image they project to his/her. Reid has a charisma deficit in the first place, but people now think "With the majority in the Senate (not super-majority anymore, but anyway), EVEN YOU can be a tough badass and strike fear into those idiots, right, Harry?" What he managed to accomplish in face of the difficult reality of the Senate itself does not really matter anymore, how he appeared in doing so does. It doesn't seem like he snaps his fingers and the Senators instantly get lined up (because that never happens in the real world). And it seems Democrats are now punishing him for that.
(Gosh, this does sound familiar. Some "progressives" are doing exactly the same to Obama too).
To be perfectly honest, I too wish he said things more forcefully or like that now and then. I also do think in today's mass media (and American) politics, Reid's lack of machismo is his disadvantage. However, that he is trailing this badly behind those complete idiots, and that's what Democrats are doing to him... it's just nuts, ridiculous. He doesn't deserve this for sure.
But it's still early, and whoever wins the Republican primary, s/he will be exposed once the general campaign gets in full swing. Im hoping Democrats will come to senses in November.
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FreeRider
April 21, 2010 8:44 PM in reply to geofu54
You hit on my biggest frustration with the Reid scenario--he's being fucked over by Democrats!!! Reid has delivered for Nevada; he has delivered for his party as majority leader; he has delivered for the president but the shitheads keep trashing him!
Reid is the nutleft's favorite whipping boy. However, whenever I ask "what has Reid done or not done to earn such hatred from the left?" the response is always something nebulous and talking-pointish like "he a failure." Of course, that's just bullshit.
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chameleon
April 22, 2010 10:04 AM in reply to FreeRider
Another thing these idiots forget is that it took courage for Harry to bring the HCR bill to the floor knowing he was getting his ass kicked in the polls over this particular issue and knowing it might be his demise. I'd say that was pretty damn courageous.
How many profiles in courage have we seen from the other side. None.
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kstone
April 22, 2010 7:02 PM in reply to geofu54
Her arrogance while slinging ignorance might also turn some people off. Here she is saying something quite bizarre, that poor folks might prevail upon the kindness of a good-hearted doctor to get free health care. (She certainly isn't speaking of herself!) And yes, there are many doctors who have risked their positions by helping suffering people with no means to pay them. The insurance companies HATE that. But that doesn't mean people should have to beg. Reminds of that similarly arrogant, ignorant and disdainful Cheney comment that his admin needn't worry about the jobless - they have eBay!
Lowden reminds me of Bachmann: haughty, overly confident in her own abilities, extremely narrow worldview, attractive (to some) and willing to sell her grandmother for a chicken.
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mJJ
April 22, 2010 3:21 PM in reply to Moose49
Actualllty this looney person at least gives me a great BIG laugh. I can see it now. Someone with cancer arrives at the doctor's office with a box containing 4 chickens and as she is asked how she intends to pay, the patient hands over the box of chickens. By the end of the day, the doc might have a cord of wood, a box of chickens, several cakes, 2 turtledoves and a partridge in a pear tree. I thank this loony woman for the great big laugh, errrr cackle, she has given this old Republican but surely we will know enough NOT to elect this loon. But if we do, alert every health department in the country. No doctor's office will ever be sterile again. HAHAHAHA
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Steve
April 22, 2010 7:22 PM in reply to Moose49
Fight? What fight? The word fight implies that Harry has some sort of chance to win. Only in wonderland. Harry is done. Is there anybody who isn't ahead of him in the polls?
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mans_best_friend
April 20, 2010 5:58 PM
Reid should challenge her to a debate, then just shut up and let her talk.
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tiowally
April 20, 2010 6:31 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
Reid should challenge her to a cock fight.
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Leftflank
April 20, 2010 9:22 PM in reply to tiowally
Maybe she's speaking metaphorically & chicken means something more reasonable, like beaver & painting the house means cleaning out the pipes. The wise Doc knows she really means trading for sex, which is a bit of a gamble, which are both reasons he's operating in Vegas in the first place. So the deep thinking Sue may just have it all figured out.
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bibimimi
April 21, 2010 12:38 AM in reply to Leftflank
"That's three fine little peckers you have there, Miz Lowden"...
[bow-chicka-bown!].
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susanthe
April 20, 2010 10:04 PM in reply to tiowally
He'd have to borrow one for the fight.
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mcc
April 20, 2010 5:58 PM
Wikipedia:
Lowden is truly saying things that only someone who's been on gold-plated executive insurance since 1978 would ever say.
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mans_best_friend
April 20, 2010 6:16 PM in reply to mcc
This goes beyond that. I don't think even Sarah Palin would say something so completely idiotic.
"...before we all started having health care, in the olden days..."
Good heavens.
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J481632
April 20, 2010 6:59 PM in reply to mcc
Also says, "Sue Lowden and her husband has in excess of $50 million dollars in stock holdings as filed to the Senate Office of Public Records."
Unlike most Americans, she could just buy a hospital for her family.
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datora
April 20, 2010 8:57 PM in reply to mcc
Your assessment of Governor Quitter is far too generous, sir. But, I will grant that Bartering Barbie could well give her a good run for the title.
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datora
April 20, 2010 9:00 PM in reply to datora
urg. Reply-to in a non-intuitive location. Was supposed to be reply-to mans_best_friend. My irony today.
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bibimimi
April 21, 2010 12:42 AM in reply to datora
Chick fight!!!!!!!!
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Nancy Irving
April 21, 2010 1:28 AM in reply to datora
It is really too bad that there are only two spots on the national ticket.
Palin, Bachmann and Lowden would win some kind of trifecta.
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SqueakyRat
April 22, 2010 7:19 AM in reply to mcc
Yeah but she's a hawt middle-aged republican.
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CJ
April 20, 2010 6:40 PM
I tried to take Lowden's advice this week. Well, not to barter, but to haggle.
I've bee discussing a medical procedure with a specialist who is out of my insurer's network. Therefore, I'd be responsible for any and all medical costs in excess of the amount that insurer has determined to be "usual and customary." There is no cap for such excess amounts.
So, when I tried to ask the doctor's office what they would charge for this procedure, they gave me the run-around with, frankly, lies and falsehoods (essentially misrepresenting what my insurer will pay). When I then asked them to put their fees into writing and e-mail them to me, they asked why? I told them that I didn't want any surprises. They said that because of the insurance company they couldn't put their fees in writing (I have no idea what that means).
In short, this doctor's office bent over backwards not to give me their pricing information because they have no intention of competing for business that way or negotiating their price. They're going to charge what they charge, they're not going to tell you what they charge up front, and we have to take it or leave it.
In summary, my experience demonstrates that Sue Lowden is full of crap.
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mans_best_friend
April 20, 2010 6:48 PM in reply to CJ
Actually, the reason they couldn't give you a price is that all large insurers negotiate hefty discounts for all procedures. These discounts run 30% or more. When you get and EOB you'll likely see two different amounts: "billed amount", and "allowed amount". The "allowed amount" is the discounted figure. So the truth is, your doctor's billing department really doesn't know what the price is until the insurance company tells them what they'll pay and it's different for every insurer.
N.B. This screwed up system is a significant part of the reason why administrative overhead is so ridiculously high.
Try offering them a couple of chickens.
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CJ
April 20, 2010 11:25 PM in reply to mans_best_friend
You're mistaken.
As I previously stated, this doctor is NOT in my insurer's provider network. Therefore, this doctor has not negotiated any fees or discounts with my health insurance company. Therefore, this doctor can charge me any amount they want. My insurance company will pay 60 percent of the "usual and customary" amount for the procedure (as determined by the insurance company), and I'm on my own for the rest.
That, however, isn't the problem. The problem is that the doctor's office refuses to disclose how much they charge up front. You can't haggle (or barter) if they won't tell you what they charge.
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Cool Blue Reason
April 21, 2010 2:22 PM in reply to CJ
Perhaps you're going about this wrong:
1. First ask the service provider for a listing of each procedure that they intend to bill for (without "prices," as they insist).
2. Then, contact your insurance company to obtain a breakdown of what they consider "usual and customary" for each procedure.
3. Multiply by 0.6 to obtain the expected insurance payment for each item, and sum to obtain the total insurance payment.
4. Decide how much you can afford to pay out of pocket in addition to this amount. Divide your proposed out of pocket payment by the total insurance payment to obtain a decimal ratio, to which you should add 1. Multiply the expected insurance payment for each item by this factor (i.e., 1.xx) to obtain the proposed provider payment for each procedure.
5. Fax your detailed proposal to the provider, specifying that this is is the actual payment they can expect to receive based on your insurance reimbursement levels and the amount you can afford to pay.
6. If they accept the "offer," make sure you've got some kind of written substantiation that they've signed off on those terms.
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CJ
April 21, 2010 5:15 PM in reply to Cool Blue Reason
That's a excellent idea! But I'm stuck at step one.
The doctor's office will only give me some of the procedures (CPT codes), but they said that once they surgery begins, they are likely to find that they have to perform additional procedures--which makes sense. But they will only quote me on the procedures they know about, not the ones that they will decide on during the surgery.
Note that this doctor is a specialist who only performs limited procedures for this condition. Therefore, those potential additional procedures are limited to one or two...maybe three. When I asked for the CPT codes for those additional procedures, the response I received from the doctor's employee was literally as follows (emphasis mine): "right now, i do not know of any other procedures that he might perform."
I have since followed up for the CPT codes on these mysterious additional procedures, but to no avail. They keep telling me that they don't know exactly which additional procedures he will perform, and therefore, they won't give me the codes for them.
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mass_murdock
April 21, 2010 10:36 PM in reply to CJ
Looks like your just going to have to sign yourself over to the death panel and take whatever comes.
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SqueakyRat
April 22, 2010 7:22 AM in reply to CJ
Throw in another chicken.
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nowhereman
April 20, 2010 6:50 PM
Harry should ask her what the going rate is for chickens per MRI.
I'm guessin' back in the day, we done had pert near 5000 chickens fer each of them MRI pictures.
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Jaycal
April 20, 2010 7:43 PM in reply to nowhereman
No, no, no... according to www.MRIcompare.com an MRI is only between $400 and $3,500. I could buy a roasted Costco chicken for $6, so you'd only need to drop off about 67 chickens in your doctor's office. Then again, your doctor might depreciate the value of your chickens to about $2, because he now owns all the chickens in your state after a few weeks of this bartering bs, so now you'd need to bring in about 200 of the little feathered friends.
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datora
April 20, 2010 9:08 PM in reply to nowhereman
I wonder how many chickens it takes to pay off ten years of med school loans? And, does the doctor then pay his staff and his rent and equipment purchases & rentals in chickens?
Maybe Congress should just set the minimum wage in chickens per hour and we can all pay our taxes to the IRS in chickens. How many chickens will the postal service require to pay for the postage on sending ten thousand chickens to the IRS?
Sure wish the Daily Show or Colbert would take this and run with it ...
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slb
April 21, 2010 3:00 AM in reply to datora
My sister started raising chickens on her property a couple of years ago. I thought she was a little bit crazy then; I had no idea she had the beginnings of a new United States mint in the works!
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ejg3
April 20, 2010 7:09 PM
I suggest that people line up with chickens to cash in for chips at one of the casinos she and her husband own. I suspect there will be more squawking from the house than from the hens. I think she has firmly self defined herself as bird brained but that may be too insulting to the avian world.
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slb
April 21, 2010 2:57 AM in reply to ejg3
+10!
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bvd
April 20, 2010 7:10 PM
In the olden days the medical procedures were things like blood-letting and applying leeches. Perhaps she's nostalgic for those lost treasures as well.
This is so easy to ridicule in a campaign that even Harry can do it. Just say to folks, ask yourself - what would your doctor do if you offered to give him some homecooked food in exchange for a hip replacement. They'll understand right away.
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hsdell
April 20, 2010 7:14 PM
I'm gonna need a bigger wallet--currently I only have enough room for a couple chicken nuggets.
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Jaycal
April 20, 2010 7:39 PM in reply to hsdell
Yea, I imagine pulling a chicken out of your trousers in public will only scare the straights.
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NotBornEveryMinute
April 21, 2010 6:14 AM in reply to Jaycal
LOL! Thank you, Mr. Gumby!
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bluestatedon
April 20, 2010 7:19 PM
Y'know, just when I had decided that the next Republican VP nominee should be the lady down in Georgia who's sure the DOD implanted a microchip up her tush, Sue comes in and doubles down on the crazy. It's a tough decision.
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hsdell
April 20, 2010 7:20 PM
Forget about gold and silver, there is a new poultry-based monetary standard.
Following the adoption of this new standard, we'll be able to transact business without having to carry a truckload of birds with the new MasterChicken(tm) card.
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datora
April 20, 2010 9:15 PM in reply to hsdell
My MasterChickâ„¢ is only a Turkey Cardâ„¢ right now. I'm hoping to upgrade to an Emu Cardâ„¢ once the economy starts to turn around.
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Xantar
April 20, 2010 11:20 PM in reply to datora
Teacher salary: 15,000 chickens
Day at the hairdresser: 3 chickens
Running such an incompetent political campaign that a badly wounded milquetoast senator might STILL pull one out: Priceless.
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Measure for Measure
April 20, 2010 7:22 PM
Sheesh, I thought that she just misspoke the first time. I guess I gave her too much credit.
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Jaycal
April 20, 2010 7:37 PM
This is complete historical revisionism, which is typical for a Republican. They used to bring a duck... why do you think they called them "Quacks". : )
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ejg3
April 20, 2010 7:39 PM
For the good of the country this is one of those things that happens in Vegas that should stay in Vegas. Romney's Dad was out of the running for the White House when he said he was brain washed on Viet Nam. I suspect with Ms Lowden rain drops falling on her head would be more than enough.
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Bass Ace
April 20, 2010 7:43 PM
Will they take my pig at the front desk, or do I have to lead him through the atrium, up the elevator, all the way to the 14th floor of the University Medical Center? Does he have to wear a mask if we're going to maternity?
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Douglashh
April 20, 2010 8:08 PM
Ms. Lowden is certifiably insane if she thinks this is a credible proposal. How many city dwellers have anything to trade that would be anywhere close to the cost of the average doctor's visit? Let's ask the AMA to poll their members on this one.
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unknowncitizen
April 20, 2010 8:21 PM in reply to Douglashh
Maybe city folks could scare up some crack or meth ingredients to pay for a GSW triage?
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Michael A
April 20, 2010 8:38 PM
Another milf looney toon running as a repuke. When will it stop? This is just plain insane.
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33lp
April 20, 2010 8:39 PM
You all are forgetting how pretty she is. Leave Britny, er, Suzie alone!
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hychka
April 20, 2010 8:49 PM
Maybe she thinks she could pay with sex. Probably if every patient paid with sex, the poor DR would be too tired to practice. Ms. Lowden might think she's special enough.
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hychka
April 20, 2010 8:51 PM in reply to hychka
PS Of course, this is NV! What was I thinking? Of course she was talking about paying with sex!!
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jjcomet
April 21, 2010 10:31 AM in reply to hychka
Laudon paying for anything with sex is too revolting to contemplate this early in the morning. If she tried to pay for health care with sex, she's be lucky to get a Tylenol.
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Mt. Skullcrusher
April 20, 2010 8:58 PM
Lowden's Wikipedia page has been updated to reflect her beliefs.
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Michael A
April 20, 2010 9:03 PM in reply to Mt. Skullcrusher
They still have the first line as former runner up in the ms america pagent and ms new jersey. Then, reporter, then married into money and has been livin the high life on her hubby's dime. Gee, those sure are qualifiers. Sh*t, she should be running for president, not a lowly senate seat. She's more qualified than rambo of the great northwest who can see russia from her front porch.
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Woodrowfan
April 20, 2010 9:21 PM
She was the head of a casino? I wonder how she'd like if her customers tried to pay their gambling debts with livestock or other payments in kind??
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Michael A
April 20, 2010 9:31 PM in reply to Woodrowfan
No prob. Comes out of hubby's pocket anyway. "Head of a casino"? You can get alot of mileage out of that. Figurehead maybe, or . . . . nah, that would be too crass.
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ejg3
April 20, 2010 9:48 PM
I think that she's going to take away the Dumb Cluck title from Henny Penny.
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Given Up
April 20, 2010 10:10 PM
Everytime people have said that the republicans want to drag us back to the fifteenth century I have usually thought of this as hyperbole. I guess I was wrong.
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ronalley
April 20, 2010 10:45 PM
Lowden may be a crackpot but she has a point -- just not the one she is trying to make. Until medical insurance became common in the late 1940's and 50's, setting and collecting fees was a very important part of the medical practice. In the days before medical insurance, doctors cultivated wealthy patients just as lawyers cultivated wealthy and corporate clients. Doctors made house calls and were concerned about the cost of delivering services. Particularly in rural areas, barter was a common method of settling a physician's bill. Doctors often collected their fees in partial payments. In many respects the business side of a medical practice in pre-insurance days resembled the business side of veterinary practices today.
Medical insurance relieved the medical profession of the need to set and collect fees from individuals and allowed them to devote more time to medical issues. When insurance companies provided a steady stream of patients in the doctors' offices, doctors found they no longer needed to make house calls to maintain a good book of business.
Health care reform is likely to have as great an impact on the medical profession as medical insurance did 60 years ago. I can't foresee the exact changes, but I'm confident those changes will be great.
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h0db
April 20, 2010 11:25 PM in reply to ronalley
Of course, back in the day, the only things a doctor could do was set broken bones, help deliver babies, and tell you how long until the cancer killed you. Oh yeah, and hand out the sugar pills. You can either have barter medicine, or you can have technology, antibiotics, medical research, etc. You can't have both.
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Cool Blue Reason
April 21, 2010 2:36 PM in reply to ronalley
The adoption of insurance also effectively wiped out the potential for market signals to regulate demand (and, secondarily, supply), because it has almost completely obfuscated price information from market participants.
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Jim_NH
April 22, 2010 2:06 PM in reply to Cool Blue Reason
Yup, agreed.
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PushMe-PullYou
April 20, 2010 11:06 PM
Suzie Vegas not remember right. In olden days Ugg pay medicine man with mastodon drumstick.
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NotBornEveryMinute
April 21, 2010 6:20 AM in reply to PushMe-PullYou
Ugg have sock-puppet?
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Phoebe Fay
April 20, 2010 11:43 PM
Well, I looked at Ms. Lowden's website, and I will note that she's consistent. Her plans for bartering for medicine are just about serious and thoughtful as her plans for balancing the budget.
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bibimimi
April 21, 2010 12:34 AM
She's guano.
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Kuyleh
April 21, 2010 2:28 AM
All I own ATM are cats and rabbits. D'you think we'll have different animals, like we have different coins and bills? Or will I have to invest in a chicken coop?
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witty1
April 21, 2010 3:32 AM
Bartering was pre-penicillin and pre-polio vaccine so I'm thinking there wasn't a lot of R&D; built into a Physician's fee at that time.
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Sailormarlowe
April 21, 2010 5:27 AM
Sweet Sue Lowden, she make best Senator. She right for all peoples. And, doctors should be required by law to acccept as payment whatever patients have to offer. Barter is best. Sue is correct on the important issues.
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Kuyleh
April 21, 2010 5:49 PM in reply to Sailormarlowe
Your English is failing drastically. You need to learn to copy and paste better...Assuming your IQ is high enough for that, even.
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bluestatedon
April 21, 2010 7:39 AM
I mean, it seems obvious: people who in disproportionate numbers exhibit insanely high rates of alcoholism, a legacy of mass murder and political repression, nationalist paranoia, cultural genocide of minority peoples, involvement in organized crime in the U.S. and Europe, active and enthusiastic support of child prostitution across Russia, who are statistically vastly less competent at observing the rule of law and human rights, are a people that should not be especially proud of themselves. Russians should be equally embarrassed.
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greatdogs
April 21, 2010 8:06 AM
If she is elected, will Sen Lowden accept chickens or other live critters as payment for her services? If its good enough for the local sawbones, it ought to be good enough for the jr senator from Nevada. Imagine being on the flight from DC to Vegas on a payday weekend. The only thing missing would be Ellie May Clampant. Well then again, maybe not.
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KenInTenn
April 21, 2010 4:28 PM in reply to greatdogs
I wonder how much poultry it takes to get :30-second spots aired on Vegas radio and TV stations?
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bluestatedon
April 21, 2010 9:36 AM
Although I'm a Michigan Democrat, I'm going to defend old George Romney here. George was a moderate Republican who was serious about governing, and would have already been run out of today's GOP. The 'brainwashing" comment was perhaps ill-advised, but the fact that it seemed to have ended his Presidential aspirations was a very early example of the idiotic herd mentality among the journalistic elites even back then. All Romney was referring to was the fact that during a trip to Vietnam he felt he'd been sold a bill of goods about how well the war was going. "Brainwashing" had very negative connotations at the time due to associations with North Korean and Chinese actions with American POWs during the Korean War, and the press jumped on it in a mindless frenzy as indicative that Romney was somehow not fit for office.
Mitt isn't half the man his father was.
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arbalest
April 21, 2010 10:28 AM
Apparently the young lady has not been to a clinic where there are 50 or so people ahead of you for waiting for service. How long would it be before the doctor has enough of what ever you have to offer?
It occurs to me that Duke Cunningham (with his "menu") was basically opening the awarding of defense appropriations contracts to the barter system so maybe she has bigger plans for this system.
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ariuszme
April 21, 2010 7:51 PM
NV, LV my home, is a desert. LV is the hub and Reno is the other existant town.
Truth is Harry REALLY IS one of those nice, quiet, boring old guys who leads a quiet family life and has no agenda whatsoever. Only thing I can hold against him is he became a wacko Mormon in his adult life. Otherwise he's a ridiculously ethical hard working guy.
He does lack charisma. But politicians unfortunately get voted in with charisma over ethics.
His son is running for Gov, he's not doing well in the polls either.. State has a lot of Mormons and churches in general.. too many idiot cons!
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tdispatch07
April 21, 2010 11:10 PM
Our grandparents?? My grandparents never brought chickens to any place or painted anyone's house but their own. She must be REALLY old to remember that so well. I hear in those days we all used outhouses and it was common for people to die of pneumonia and influenza. Maybe she remembers that 99.9% of all doctors were white men and wants to return to that.
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mass_murdock
April 22, 2010 1:24 AM in reply to tdispatch07
I have a great grandfather who was a doctor in a small town in Texas. He was in fact a white man who died in a gunfight. He and his opponent (the town sheriff) emptied their guns into each other at point blank range. Then he crawled over and started beating his (dead) opponent with his empty gun. He might have survived, but he refused medical treatment.
I suppose you could have asked him to take a chicken in lieu of payment. Then again he was the kind of person you would have had to ask very carefully.
Now back in Kenya, my more remote ancestors did it all the time. They still do as far as I know. A nice chicken goes a long way in Kenya. Perhaps we should model our health care system like Kenya's, I think is what she is saying here.
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SqueakyRat
April 22, 2010 7:23 AM in reply to mass_murdock
Wait a minute. White men die in gunfights?
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Jim_NH
April 22, 2010 2:03 PM in reply to tdispatch07
I am really old, but recently I did some elecronics repair for my doctor and haven't seen a co-pay since. With the HC bill, what do you think doctors will do to avoid the needless paperwork?
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Sailormarlowe
April 22, 2010 7:30 AM
Sue Lowden, she hot blonde. Harry Reid, he old cadaver. Sue, she win. Any peoples sick, they go emergency room. What's the problem?
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chameleon
April 22, 2010 10:08 AM in reply to Sailormarlowe
You need to get some new material.
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larsvanness
April 22, 2010 11:10 AM
Marlowe needs to meet me in a dark alley so I can have the morbid pleasure of grinding him into the ground like the cockroach that he is. Well that's just being disrespectful to cockroaches. I once had to shoot a rabid a dog and that was far more distasteful than any thing I could think of doing to the sea queen here.
I'm still trying to get over the shock of finding my beautiful 20 yr/o daughter is now in Afghanistan. She was here on leave at the end of March after stopping in Wyoming to see her mother and never said a word to anyone about her deployment orders. My sister was following her FB page and read her brief post "Afghanistan sucks" and then called me. So I have completely re-immersed myself in our Foreign Policy. Listened to Dexter Filkins on Fresh Air yesterday describing the ground situation and Karzai Governmment and of course it is just a bit trite to say deja-vu all over again. Viet-Nam, how eery it was listening to him describe how Marines control the villages by day and the VC--oops...er the Taliban return and take control at night. I fear the President is being badly served by his Secratary of State who unfortunately still harbors in my opinnions aspiriations of high political office (wondering why Chelsea Clinton isn't wearing captain's bars but then it appears that the daunting task of building a Muslim democracy in Afghanistan isn't for every one). She is much less the policy wonk that her husband is and I can think of any number of academician that are far more fluent in foreign affairs than she. But really my disdain for her goess back to the primary campaign and the statments issued by her staff against Barak Obamma. Anyway I don't mean to offend you here and I will be folowing your comments closely and thank you for your kind sentiments.
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chameleon
April 22, 2010 11:22 AM in reply to larsvanness
I can't even imagine how distressed you are. My thought are with you with all sincerity. I would love to hear more about your thoughts on Hillary and why you feel she is doing such a terrible job. My disdain for her came in the campaign also, especially when I found out she was responsible for Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers. You have not offended me in any way and I can't imagine your ever doing so.
Grigory is on his rant again today with is blatant racism, even though he thinks Obama is doing a good job. I feel little consolation in his praise of Obama given the fact he thinks the rest of the black population is dirt under his feet. I wish you could use the power of your communication to set him straight. I get too angry to properly articulate my thoughts.
You are very special....
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larsvanness
April 22, 2010 2:04 PM in reply to chameleon
Thanks chameleon. Trust me here when I tell you that grigory is not praising the President. What he is doing is patronizing us and the President by appearing to be more enlightened. It's an old racial ploy and a cheap one at that. Believe me, you can take him for the racsist that he is.
"And I must admit, I am extremely impressed with Obama. I've never actually observed a reasonably intelligent and thoughtful African-American before, it's quite astonishing. Seriously, in five years in Ivy graduate programs, I got used to the idea that all "educated" black Americans were pompous and ignorant idiots, but Obama really is the exception that proves the rule I guess."
I have already pointed out to him that if he did indeed spend "five years in Ivy graduate programs" his "education" would have exposed him to some very significant black authors, historians, philosophers and scientists. The fact that it didn't or he refuses to acknowledge these thinkers merely indicates that no amount of education will ever benefit him.
Well Hell, as I have already pointed out to "grigory pechorin" my high school educated daughter (who is now in Afghanistan) is much better read in Russian literature than he is. I introduced her to Tolstoy's "Notes From Underground" when she was in junior high school and she became so enthralled with the character of Anna Karenina that she insisted on changing her first name to "Anna".
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chameleon
April 22, 2010 3:13 PM in reply to larsvanness
I do trust you. Notice he has resorted to name calling. he is a fraud and a liar and a racist.
I guess your daughter didn't want you to worry in advance. I can't even imagine the anguish.
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AbqMike
April 22, 2010 1:34 PM
Why doesn't this woman, and all her barter "supporters," publicly drop any health insurance they have, and announce that henceforth they will obtain all health services only through barter? It would be an excellent test of her ideas.
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Steve
April 22, 2010 7:19 PM in reply to AbqMike
Better yet why don't all the mooching deadbeats who insist that somebody else pay for their health care quit being parasites and try paying there own way? Then there wouldn't be a so called health care crisis and nobody will have to advance half baked ideas like bartering for health care.
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Jim_NH
April 22, 2010 1:51 PM
It is not uncommon for carpenters, plumbers and other tradesmen to exchange services instead of cash. Obama's greatest success may well be the creation of a huge undergound economy - physicians included.
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boyoboy
April 22, 2010 2:34 PM
Why doesn't she poll healthcare practitioners and see who is willing to barter for their medical services. She may very well believe her claim, but she should be able to prove her theory by evidence.
And, we all know what the results of this poll would be. I doubt that many providers are going to give you an MRI for some Foster Farms.
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